Episode 122: Is Your Social Media Algorithm Toxic?

s Sara Khaki 00:05

powered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sarah Khaki and Shana Woods from Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And this is the Happily Ever After Divorce podcast.

Welcome to another episode of the Happily Ever After Divorce podcast. I’m attorney Sarah Khaki joined by our managing partner, Shawna Woods. Shawna, you and I, a couple of weeks ago had this text message exchange that has led to this conversation. You’re the one I’m talking about. We’re talking about social media. Yes. And we’re talking about, is your social media algorithm toxic? And it was a day that there’s a lot going on in the news and two very big events.

separate big events were happening in the news. ⁓ My algorithm was feeding one set of news to me. ⁓ That was one big event. Yours was feeding one to you. And I remember ⁓ you were texting me about, my god, did you see this and this and that? I was a little bit, but have you seen, you know…

this other news, NewsBee, but you know, I don’t want to get into the politics of it or the world news of it or the domestic news of it, but have you seen these things? And you told me you hadn’t. And I was shocked, right? I, I, but it gave me this like aha moment. I was like, whoa, two people who are partners, who work together, live, you know, rather close to each other in proximity. ⁓ We have a lot of similar interests.

Not everything, but a lot of similar interests. know a lot of similar people have two very different algorithms of what the social media feed is feeding them. And mine is making me feel like this is the most important, most ⁓ urgent thing that all humans should be paying attention to right now. And so is yours, but they’re different from each other, right? And how easy it would be to get your feelings hurt once you realize, if you don’t know that people are getting different algorithms and what their algorithm is telling them and how it’s playing with their psyche, right? And how far apart it can pull us from each other. So there’s so many layers of this. First layer of thought was, whoa, this sort of thing could really isolate people from each other. It could draw distance between two people that ⁓

you know, have a lot of check the box and a lot of things that they’re in common with, but the algorithm, depending on what it’s feeding them, what it’s putting in front of them as the most important thing that the entire world is paying attention to, and, you know, and how it’s angled towards them versus the other person, how far apart that could spread them, but also how much this algorithm is designed.

you know, from an AI perspective, designed to know what are your biggest fears? What are your trigger points? What are things that if you see gets you so enraged that you will not be able to turn your eye from and keep having the scroll, right? And you keep needing to know more and you need to know more and you need to be more educated on it. Or addictions that you might have.

I mean, we all have things that were susceptible to going into dark rabbit holes on or things that we can’t stop observing, right? Even if it doesn’t have anything to do with all the news, just, things that draw us naturally and how, you know, deep into the rabbit holes we can go into that. And before you know it, you are just, you know, your head down, just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and you’re no longer engaged in real conversations.

So I wanted to bring the topic up because obviously we are in a practice area that involves relationships, involves families and ⁓ minor children, partnerships, marriages, and how incredibly damaging your algorithm could be for your psyche and for all your relationships.

s Shawna Woods 04:23

It was so enlightening when you said this is all that I’m getting bad and I’m like I’m getting none of that. Yeah, and you’re right We we live in the same state in close proximity to each other. We’ve worked together We share a lot of the same similarities But we are receiving different viewpoints from the world of the world and from the world Just be what we may have engaged with even slight right or even maybe even set a topic near our

s Sara Khaki 04:52

Right?

s Shawna Woods 04:53

And now we’re getting inside this information. And to your point, these algorithms are designed to keep you engaged. And the way to keep you engaged is to plan your emotions, primarily the anger. Right. These rage fading, as we call them, issues that draw a lot of, well, their intent is to anger, is to bring your emotions to the forefront so that you’re continually looking and scrolling and trying to engage.

s Sara Khaki 05:13

Right.

s Shawna Woods 05:22

You and I’ve had that discussion where we both took a huge step back from social media because of these issues. And I bet, Sarah, you don’t get a whole lot of social media said to you about Scottish Highlands, do you?

s Sara Khaki 05:37

I don’t know I feel like I should but maybe my iPhone’s listening now. Maybe it is

s Shawna Woods 05:39

Mine’s all over the-

That’s a really good one. Yeah, but that’s a very simple thing, right? I’ve traveled to this highlands. I enjoyed it and now that’s all I get for a really long time That is a very nice, you know algorithm in set but that’s not always what we get and I think we all know we’re talking about and even to people living in the same household experiencing the same, you know ⁓ children and home

s Sara Khaki 05:54

Right.

s Shawna Woods 06:12

and going to work in different places are going to be fed different things. And not only could they be looking at things from opposite viewpoints that way, it’s just a generation of all that emotion, right? All the time. When you walk up to someone and you are angry about something you’ve just read or something that made you feel a certain way, you’re exuding that, right, to the other person.

They may not be there, they’re not receiving that same information, but even if they are, is that the way we want to have our relationships? As always in this high drama mode. I’m not a therapist, but I don’t think that’s how.

s Sara Khaki 06:52

Well, mean, imagine if you’re going through a fragile place in your marriage or you’re going through fragile stages with your children, Fragile transitions and a family setup. this is what you’re… How easier would it be instead of having conversations, difficult conversations with people, instead going on your phone and having something that validates your fears, validates your all your insecurities and takes it further and deeper and deeper, keeps giving it to you in a way that you can’t disengage from it. And how much farther does that separate you from the people you could communicate with and people that are closest to you? Now, I listened to a great, I think it was a podcast by an author, I guess a scholar, name is Reza Aslan.

And he said this so beautifully. said, we’re all so worried about AI taking over our minds and our relationships. It’s like it already has. He’s like, it did, you know, a while ago, Mark Zuckerberg, this is his words, went to, spoke, the algorithm, told AI, I need people to stay engaged on meta. I need them to stay engaged on Facebook. I need them to stay engaged on Instagram longer.

And do what you need to do to make that happen. It was a business requirement he had that he asked the AI to figure out. And AI figured out that from a psychological perspective, people stay longer on feed that angers them, that pisses them off. That emotion is what will keep people there longer. So I bet Scottish Highland’s very pronounced, right? There’s only so much you’re gonna look at that.

Right. But how much can you look at something that gets you to your core, off, that taps into your insecurities about your safety, your security, stage of the state of the world, your worst fears about maybe your relationships, about this, you know, who you are and your building system and attacks that. Right. And then not only attacks it, but then also validates the fears.

s Shawna Woods 09:16

Yes, and it’s continuous loop of feeding you the things that get you angry without giving you alternate conversations for your mindset, without showing you the other side of what this issue may be. So then we’re all trapped in this, why don’t you believe what I believe? Can’t you see it? I see it so clearly. And it’s because you’ve made your world so small that you forget that there are other people out there.

s Sara Khaki 09:47

Right. And it’s, I still think that people go on social media and they interact with it. We’re still so badly seeking human connection and interaction. And then that comes, think so much replace of wanting to be understood, wanting to have acceptance and permission for our feelings, for how we are perspective of the world. But instead of engaging with it this way, how much more amazing would it be if we could articulate it into words, into relationships, right? And turn that into the work that relationships require, partnership requires, parenting requires. I mean, you asked the question earlier before, at some point before we got on the podcast of, man, what if the algorithm is convincing you, should be getting the horse?

s Shawna Woods 10:36

Exactly. What if it is? Right. What if it’s convincing you that your kids are sick? Right. That they’re mentally ill or your partner’s mentally ill or that you’re being abused? Right. What if that’s what it’s convincing you? have to step in. What I miss is people used to do this. I grew up in a small town and they still do this at my dad’s house. They’ll just open the door and go, Hey. And then you yell back, come on in. And then come visit.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want that in. Don’t even try that at my house, y’all.

s Sara Khaki 11:09

I’m gonna do it.

s Shawna Woods 11:11

But the idea really is why are we not sitting down and talking to each other without this influence of someone else and something else telling us what we feel about each other.

s Sara Khaki 11:23

you live out of.

Yes. I think as you know, being in the family law space where we see, you know, kids going through such a hard time, we see some, you know, very hard child custody matters. Yes. I can think of a lot of them having to do with a child that is intensely isolated, has very hard anger issues, ⁓ has a lot of stuff that’s pent up that they’re lashing out. ⁓

Not thriving at school and not all of that has to do with just divorce. A lot of that has to do with not getting coping skills with conflict. And this algorithm is a poison for that, right? And I think that, you know, we are having this conversation as, we’re just learning so much about the powers of AI and the powers of the algorithm and how it, you know, can really understand your psyche and feed it back to you.

Wonderful ways and also in terrible ways. Now imagine children, you know, before their ⁓ conscious mind has either completely been formed, where they can have some sort of a gate before information passes through, you know, before the age of eight, everything that they’re exposed to goes directly into a belief system. It’s at least what I understand child psychologists say, it’s not till the age of seven or eight that they have formed a strong enough conscious mind.

s Shawna Woods 12:52

to start re-slighting back or start forming neuronimetic.

s Sara Khaki 12:56

to process the information, process the information, say, do I want to stock this in the subconscious as a belief, as an agreement I make with myself and the world? Or no, can I think for myself, as you’re saying? ⁓ So especially damaging, I think, for parents who are going through an already transition with their children at points of conflict, ⁓ these devices take away so much creative conversation that could be had instead.

s Shawna Woods 13:28

I couldn’t agree more. think that one of the things I always recommend to the clients is limiting both their exposure, but especially their children’s exposure to social media. And I think more people are becoming aware of it and keeping this in mind in the conversation. Social media is not the evil. It can be very hard and it can be very toxic. You have to let me use it correctly.

s Sara Khaki 13:55

One thing I also see on social media a lot is people who are going through divorce and you can tell might not have a safe place to go talk to anybody about it, right? And the anonymous posting about what’s going on. And then you see a ton of bad advice being given, a ton of somebody seeking some sort of validation, some sort of.

wanting to be understood or heard or felt and then there’s a lot of projection that goes on. you know, for those people, my heart goes out because I just wonder, there must be a lack of community. There must be a isolation, localness factor to that. And I worry about what if you’re posting those things on social media, of course, both you and I have to think how this is going to impact your case.

but also what is the advice you’re going to get and then what is the algorithm then going to start feeding you based on such vulnerable information you’ve exposed.

s Shawna Woods 14:58

Yes. And I encourage people not to do that strongly. I try not to get on social media a whole lot and there’ll be times when I see someone post like that and I immediately go to the comments like we all do. Right. And I see horrible advice, really bad advice, things that you would say, please don’t do. And I have been known simply to comment, please seek the advice of an attorney. Yes. These are incorrect. Don’t take the advice of…

s Sara Khaki 15:18

Alright, bye.

s Shawna Woods 15:27

First of all, you don’t know the intention of the person who’s commenting back to you. They may be getting joy from creating chaos. You are standing in the middle of a crowd that you know no one and telling them, give you advice about your life. Not the best years of social media. I feel for you if that’s where you are.

s Sara Khaki 15:38

Yes.

s Shawna Woods 15:54

But there are so many people where you can just pick up the phone as far as calling an attorney, calling a therapist who are going to walk you through these issues. And that one-on-one where you can really get into what your case is or what your feelings are is so much more valuable than shouting to a room of strangers and having them shout back at you.

s Sara Khaki 16:17

Absolutely. That’s exactly what it is. They’re just chatting back at you.

s Shawna Woods 16:20

Thank you, Sean. Thank you.

s Sara Khaki 16:29

Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to AtlantaDivorcelawgroup.com forward slash resources.