January 26, 2026
Sara & Shawna
Sara, Shawna
Empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sara Khaki and Shawna Woods from Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And this is the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. Welcome to another episode of the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. I am Sara Khaki from Atlanta Divorce Law Group joined by our managing partner Shawna Woods. And today Shawna is going to do
A different kind of segment where she’s gonna actually interview me about my marriage. And this episode is meant to be listened to as a sequel to our fantasy episode where we talk about the fantasy of a relationship and the fantasy of the happily ever after and where that’s been fed to us since childhood. But now this episode, we’re gonna talk about the reality and Shawna’s gonna be our tour guide of that.
Well, thank you. That was a great introduction, I think, to what we’re doing today, talking about the fantasies versus the reality. You know, Sara and I come from really two different places where we are in our lives right now. She is in a very successful, happy relationship. I am very happily single. And I think that it brings a lot of interesting topics up and we’re able to really be honest with each other. But I am.
Very, you know, always fascinated by anyone who is in our world as divorce attorneys, right? Who has successful relationships in how the interplay, you know, kind of works out. But we were talking about earlier, you know, in our fantasy, how we feel like, we’ve met the one. Is that how it was with you and Hashem?
It actually was. I truly felt like I had found my Aladdin, my Prince Charming. It truly was. When I met Hisham, I would say I knew pretty strongly within the first. It’s funny because in the last episode we were making fun of the Disney princesses, but I was very much like Cinderella because we had met that night, college night, had fun with our friends. And then I remember going home and telling my friends, like, I think like this is it.
Right? And he had that same sense. Probably within the next two weeks, I knew like I’m probably going to marry him.
What was it that stuck out that thought this is the person and was it was you’re super handsome? My gosh, was there a word he said? What was that connection?
So obviously, you have to, the physical attraction has to be there. But one thing I have learned is that crazy amount of physical attraction is actually unhealthy. Yeah. So that’s, you need to run, you need to probably run fast from the person that makes you just like physically, the physical attraction so high that you’re like weak in the knees and you’re slurring your words. I was only 18 when I met Hisham and in high school, I would always tell my, one of my best friends, Lily, would say, Lily, I don’t think I’m gonna end up.
Ever finding the one because I never properly felt challenged enough by guys. And you know, that’s my sexual orientation. I’m attracted to men. And so I was like, I wasn’t ever felt like I was challenged by a guy. And the minute they showed interest, I would lose interest. And Hisham was able to show me interest and I was still very challenged by him.
And that just sparked something in me that I was like, this is new. I’ve never experienced that. I’m not acting dumb. I’m not like my knees aren’t weak. I’m, but I’m attracted to him physically yet. My mind is very, very attracted and everything he says opens up my mind. Everything. I’m at my best too. So I felt like I was showing up at the best version of myself in that, just in that court courtship. Sounds like such an ancient world. We’re in, know,
The time of Anne Boleyn, but well, we were courting each other, but that’s how I felt. I loved who I was being around him. We’ve talked about this before when we talked about the toxic relationship. So much of our lives and our relationships isn’t so much about how somebody makes you feel about them, but how they make you feel about yourself. So I love the way I felt about myself around him. I think that was the part, and I’ve never felt that way. And I felt like the more love and attention he was giving me,
My attraction was only getting more fueled. Wasn’t more like, okay, like, ugh, this isn’t fun anymore, because I kind of have your interest and I’m not interested anymore. And unfortunately, that was sort of the immature place I had been before meeting him, where was like, as soon as a guy told me like they were interested in me, my interest was no longer there. And that’s why I never really had a relationship before it, Sham. I can see that, Shawna, I can see that.
I can definitely relate.
I didn’t realize you guys met when you were so young. This is wow.
Yeah,
He was 20 and I was 18.
How long did you guys date? So you dated for six years.
Six years. Yeah,
All through college and law school.
In those dating years, did that you’re the one just continue all the time?
And that’s interesting because it did, even in, we had some fights, we had some arguments in those years. We never broke up in those six years, but that feeling of you are the one was always there. And I would even, I remember even telling my dad when I told, when we kind of asked permission to get engaged, I said, I had such a beautiful relationship with my dad and a very traditional relationship with my dad, where I said,
I want your blessing, I want your permission and I’m receptive of you saying no. And if you say no, I want you to know that’s okay. Like that’s how much trust I had in my father that he would never say no without good reason. But I said to him, I don’t think I’m gonna end up getting married if it’s not Hisham. And I knew that. In my heart, I felt like he is the one and if it doesn’t turn out with him, I’ll be okay. I never had a feeling I won’t be okay.
I think that is probably a key thing to take away. The fact that I think Hisham felt the same way. Like we are each other’s one, but we’re not insufficient without each other. Does that make sense?
It does. It’s not the Jerry Maguire you complete.
No, no, Both showed up very complete. Actually, for Hisham, he was like, I am meeting you at a very inconvenient time. Like he said that, like he was like, I’m not looking for a girlfriend. I’m not looking for that person to have a serious relationship with. I’m about to go off to Germany for this internship for a whole summer. I’m about to build my career. And he was very much in the footsteps of his father. His father graduated school and then
Traveled the world. Like he did work as an engineer in Germany, in Russia, in London, then ended up in America and had this freedom of when he sort of had built that, you know, career to then go to Egypt and find his one and bring her back. And I think that not that he was, I don’t, think he was looking for more of that path of I’m going to be an international experience, travel the world, build up my resume, have the.
World of freedom and how my next career move after I graduate college, but and not have to worry about somebody to how that’s going to fit into their plans.
And That is something that you do have to consider, right? When you are in a relationship is how do my plans fit in with their plans? There was a quote I read and I forgot which CEO it was from, so I might have to go back and take a look at it. But it said, one of the best or the most important career choices you can make is who you marry. Okay.
100%. 100%. So I’ve, me and Hashem have shared this with each other because in our profession, I have seen so many people lives ruined by not just the wrong choice, but what that does to them emotionally, right? Depression, anxiety, years of going through trauma of years of just feeling lost. Yeah.
And not because the marriage itself or the divorce itself does it, but it’s how you feel about it, right? And that’s why we work so hard at Atlanta Divorce Law Group on the holistic approach of let’s get you therapy, let’s get some coaching, let’s start building the next chapter instead of this identity piece, this thing that completed me is gone. But I do 100 % agree because I’ve seen, I’ve heard stories even from very successful people where they had
Everything figured out. They had this profession figured out. They were high performers and something happens in a marriage or some infidelity happens or abuse happens and the marriage falls apart and so much of their identity is lost and everything falls apart. And then there’s the beautiful side of it where somebody gets married with a true partner and the partner challenges them.
And the partner doesn’t let them settle for less and the partner pushes them and the partner wants to grow with them. And now something that was, you know, at a 10 can turn into a 20 because of the sum is greater than, you know, the parts on their own.
I think you said something really important and I’m very curious to see how you feel about this coming from such a successful relationship. You said it’s a true partnership. Do you still feel it’s important to develop a sense of self within this relationship?
100%. So that was a long journey for Hacham and I, and I wanna make sure that wHen I say I have a successful marriage, what that means to me is I have a partnership where we have a successful, healthy mindset about our marriage and our relationship and the work that we need to do on a daily basis on it. It does not mean we don’t have problems. It does not mean we don’t fight. It does not mean there’s moments that we are just like…
I’m at a loss. I don’t even know how to move forward with you on this one, right? Or you are trying really hard to like you right now, right? We definitely have moments like this. Sometimes they happen in a more frequent basis based on what we’re going through as a family. And sometimes they’re not, you know, we’re in a much more easy situation. That success to me is defined in a marriage by the alignment of we are, we have a healthy expectation of the work that needs to be put in here.
And we have a successful plan of action of communication when we get into the rut, right? So I went on a tangent to kind of preface your question. I forgot your question.
The question was a sense of self.
It’s important. So that was part of the journey to get the successful mind about it. Because I think earlier in our marriage and when we were younger, was very much like, make me so happy. I’m in. I want to work to make you happy. And in some of our harder years, we had fights about this where I remember telling him, I’m actually not supposed to make you happy. You’re supposed to make yourself happy. And he was like, how is that possible? You’re my wife. That’s your job to make me happy. And
We went through that whole journey where we’re like, no, Actually we’re supposed to come to this marriage completely whole as a sense of self. And if I’m not able to make you happy, because I’m working on something on my own, you need to figure out for yourself how to get there. And anything I give you should be sort of like icing on top of the cake. And we also went through a journey where I was really working on myself to show up more feminine, show up more vulnerable, show up more authentic in a.
Intimate way, not constantly with like, take my work attitude of I’m coming in as a fearless leader, I’m coming in with, don’t worry, guys, I can carry everything on my shoulder. And he was like wanting to invite me to take that off when you come home, you don’t need to carry that into the home. I’m here, I want to be your man, I want to carry that for you. Was hard for me to do that. And then I went through like we talked about the pendulum swing when you’re trying to change habits. So I went through a phase where
I was like, okay, I’m gonna let you make me happy. Now anytime I’m sad, why aren’t you making me happy? And he was like, no, no, no, remember we talked about this. You’re supposed to make yourself happy. And I’m supposed to make me happy. We show up as complete holes. I’m here to help you when you’re going through a hard time and you’re trying to figure out how to be a whole self. I’m here to be your partner on that journey to help you find your own blind spots. But.
I’m not here to fill in those gaps and holes. You’re supposed to do that yourself. But when you’re going through the funk, I’m here for you. That’s my part. And that’s when you’re in a funk, that’s very difficult because you are looking to him or he’s looking to me saying, hmm, I need help.
Yeah, it’s amazing to me. You’re sitting here and obviously, you I know you as this complete, you know, leader and wonderful businesswoman and great friend. And I imagine you as an 18 year old thinking all these thoughts. I mean, did you come into it with
No, no. And Sean, I think that’s the part that’s so scary sometimes for me as a parent, because I look at it and I’m like, okay, how did he shamanize? Did we get lucky? Did we know? Because I was only 18. This could have gone very sideways. Very different. Very, very sideways. Because I am, we’ve grown so much since then. So I’m constantly looking at it and analyzing it, trying to deconstruct it to give my children some tool to say, hey, when it’s your time to look for your partner. I do believe as a parent, that is one of the most important
Important things I have to pass on to my child if my child wants to take on a life partner, right? If they make that choice is what do I offer you so that you make this choice correctly for yourself? So they are set up for success in this. And I think that what I think was there at this point is we both had a very strong sense of self and
Yeah.
Even though we didn’t have all the knowledge we do now, we hadn’t had all the personal development and all the growth and understanding. And I probably didn’t even know at that point that I wanted to be a business owner and then run a divorce law firm. All those things weren’t clear at the age of 18. And I don’t know if all his stuff was clear at the age of that point, but A, Both had a strong sense of self. So neither one of us was going to get lost in the other, right? Like it wasn’t like,
If he was into grunge, I was going to start turning into grunge. I liked R &B and hip hop, of that was going to be his favorite thing. He had a strong sense of self of this is who I am. This is what I, I know that I want to grow. I know that I’m ambitious. I know I’m very family oriented. I know I want to internationally travel.
And I was, okay, this is not who I know I am. I’m a homebody. I knew that very strongly. I’m a nerd. Loved school more than I loved going out. Hisham loved going out. And that didn’t change. I didn’t turn into a party animal because of him, right? And he didn’t turn into a nerd because of me. I knew I was very family oriented and I also knew I loved world travel. But To our essence, we were both students. Students for life.
Right. That’s probably where I think the essence was at the core there. And We both knew at our core that we weren’t necessarily blind followers of anything. We were questioners. We had a healthy dose of doubt into anything that was presented to us. So I do think it’s a matter of luck, but everything in life is a combination of luck and what do you bring to the table when luck strikes, right?
Luck that yes you did you do meet somebody that is your in your match but also luck in the sense of you presenting continuing to present your best self and continuing to want to do the work and bring self-awareness to the table after that.
Yeah, what’s that saying? When opportunity knocks, you better be ready. Right. Right. If you’re not ready and the opportunity knocks, you’re not there. So many people, you know, get to a place where it’s like, just grew up. Right. And how long have you guys been married?
Yeah.
We’ve been married since 2008. So somebody help me with the math. 14 years. Thank you. Thank you, Tara. Thank you.
So you’ve been married 14 years, which 14 years in our world when we see there is a kind of a time period when people say, we just, just grew apart. And I know you said part of that is luck and part of that is hard work. What do you attribute to, how much do you attribute to hard work?
Bye.
A lot of it, would say 90 % of it. Cause Hisham and I had a lot of opportunities to grow apart. Yeah. There’s a lot of opps, cause we’ve been married for 14 together for 20 years, right? And we’ve been through a lot of changes in those years. And there was many opportunities where I got into something such as like I got into a mindset coach or a program that I wanted to explore or an interest I wanted to explore.
And he could have easily have said, he was very busy in the corporate world when I first started getting really into the personal development space. And he could have easily had said, with my work schedule and my travel schedule, this is just crazy. I can’t get into this. And I saw a lot of friends go through that. He worked so hard to be on those journeys with me. Whenever there was a big shift where somebody was going out to learn something new, even a hobby, the other person would
Work really hard to come along and learn it and say, like what is this you’re getting into? Let me be there with you. Whether I’m gonna geek out on it with you or I’m just gonna be a support system. And I think we did that early on as teenagers too when we were first together. Like I mentioned earlier, I was a geek. I was a nerd. I loved school and Hisham liked partying. So I would go to parties with him. I wouldn’t go to every one of them with him. But I would come and I would get to know his friends.
It wasn’t like completely two drifting worlds, right? He would come and kind of learn about how much I loved history or how much I loved the law. Or if there was a conference where a US Supreme Court was visiting, he was like, okay, do you want me to come with you? Right? Even if it was a snooze fest for him, he would work towards getting engaged and learning. And I think that kind of came from both of us, from our parents. Our parents did that with us when we were teenagers. Like I went through a phase where I was obsessed with guns and roses.
Bless my mom, she listened to all the songs to this day, she can sing a strange for you from beginning to end. Don’t even mention November rain. So, and his parents were the same way, like his parents were never grew up with baseball. His sham went through a phase of baseball and his parents were like, okay, we’re gonna get into this with you. And I think we both brought that to the table of letting go of that selfish thought of, well, I just don’t like that. I don’t have anything in common with you. And I think.
That is such an easy way to grow apart from somebody. And this goes not just with your partner in life, anywhere in life where you need to work with somebody on something and you just say like, well, we have nothing in common or our interests are different or we’ve kind of grown apart. Where did that start? Where did they start showing interest in something or want to grow into something or there’s something that excites them and makes them feel ambitious. And you sort of said,
Not for me, I’m sitting this out. And you could have at least had an opportunity to get in with them. And maybe you’ll still won’t be interested, right? Like I’m just not that interested in golf, but I love his ambition for it. So I’m like, okay, you want to go look at golf stuff together? Or if, you know, if you’re watching some golf, I’ll sit down and ask some questions or, you know, I’ll try to show interest in engagement. And I think it starts very, very small. And I hear it.
All the time in our clients when I’m doing consultations or speaking to them, I can trace it almost back to that point where a different decision could have been made.
I actually hear you talking to our clients sometimes and we all approach consults a little bit differently.
And I love how you kind of approach, you know, consults and I’ve seen you, you know, send people back out and say, Hey, why don’t you go try some marriage counseling? Why don’t you go try this? And that’s one of the things I really do admire and appreciate about where you’re coming from is you know how it works and you know how to make a successful relationship and you know how to encourage other people to go give it that one last try. Know, give it all you have before you come in and you make that
Shawna, I believe it’s never too late. I believe it’s never too late. It’s one of the first things that we do at Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And we talk to our attorneys that do consultations is like really ask questions. What have you done before you’re coming to this point, to this table? Because you want to clear your conscience to say, I’ve done everything I could at this point. This person is not on this journey with me or be honest with yourself. I simply don’t want to do the work.
And I think that’s very, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with those decisions. Absolutely. And we do support them, obviously, in that it’s like, what is it you’ve done? Are you sure you want this decision?
And the reason that I think it’s so important that you’re clear with yourself, whether it’s I’ve done everything I can, we’ve reached the end tipping point, or I haven’t done everything I can, and quite frankly, I don’t want to. Either of those to me is a level of clarity you have to bring into this divorce process so that you can have a happily ever after divorce, because otherwise, without that clarity, you will live in that muddy place in your mind 10 years down the road of, I do everything I could?
And that’s what, that’s the thing that I want to provide a cure for our clients of living without regret. 10 years after divorce, five years after divorce, they can look themselves in the mirror and say, I did everything I could and this was the next best thing. Or I made a conscious decision that I was done and I didn’t, and the work was done and no more, I didn’t have any more to give. And that’s okay too. But if we don’t have that clarity,
I don’t think we can openly start that next chapter with an open heart.
Sara, I cannot agree with you more. And I love the fact that you come at it from this kind of aspect and perspective and that you’re so willing to share that it is hard work every single day.
Yes.
And that’s the part that was hard when we were talking about the fantasy section. I wanted to talk about this part so bad, but I knew we needed to save it for the sequel. Everything in life is when you get the prize, when you get the opportunity, that’s when your work begins. You think about that through everything in life. It’s sort of like a lot of us that have gone through law school, we can sort of relate to this. It’s you did all this work, you got the good grades, so now you get to be on law review, which means a lot more.
Making it to law review did not mean that like, great, now your name goes on the plaque. Now the work begins. You graduated law school, you got good grades, you got a good job. Congratulations. Now the work begins. Right? You found the one and now you got married. Now the work begins. You started a business. You know, trademarked the tagline. Now your work begins. Right. It’s that’s we work so hard.
For the opportunity to come. And then when the opportunity comes, we hope, we pray, we have enough self-awareness to see the opportunity. Because a lot of times, this opportunity is gift wrapped in a problem or a challenge or a conflict or a dilemma, Which in Hisham’s case was, what’s up? I’m about to go to Germany and I’m about to go travel the world. This is not when this was to happen. This is not in my plan. But thankfully, and luckily for me, had enough awareness to say,
No, this is, I have to jump on this, right? And plan. And then the work began. But that’s the part all of those fantasy movies and cartoons we talked about in the fantasy section miss. They get you to the point where the opportunity came, you seized it, you made it happen. And then they stop right when the work begins.
Yeah, and that’s because that’s not the fun part. No, that’s not the part. That’s not fun. That’s not what we want to watch. No, we want to watch the fun part. But the hard part is actually what makes it work. Yes, and makes it successful. If you could attribute one thing to your successful marriage, what would that be?
I think it is the self responsibility piece. It wasn’t always there. I come from a family and not a family but a culture where self sacrifice and martyrdom is praised. You know, very much often in my household from my mom and not always so blatantly but very subtly was I do all these things for you and you know, we left Iran came to Sweden for you and we left Sweden for America for you and
You know, your dad works at these hours at a gas station for you. Everything is so much self-sacrifice, self-martyrdom that it can create a little bit of, my parents didn’t have like blatant victim mentality at all. Actually the opposite, they’re very empowered people. But I think that can create in a child a little bit of victim mentality of things happen and then I have to sacrifice myself.
And to come in and fix things, right? I don’t have actual ownership of my reality. I’m just doing things for other people. And I think I had to grow out a lot of that. I had to grow out a lot of that and Hisham had to challenge me on it. I do think to my absolute core and essence, I’m a very self-empowered, take self-responsibility for everything kind of a person, but he helped wake that up inside of me. And if I…
Had not done a lot of work on myself, I could have easily have run the other way and said, no, you’re not here for me. You’re asking for too much or turn him into a bad guy in those moments where he just challenged my mindset and said, take some responsibility for this. No. After having, like I remember after having Hannah, I would go around the house and do all these like chores around the house. And he was like, I don’t value this. He said to me, he’s like, I don’t value coming home and seeing you stressed because
You cooked and you cleaned and you did all this laundry and you’re worried about the business. Just want you to know I don’t value this in my life. And I was like, whoa, like you just took all love and appreciation away from me. This is the appreciation I get. And it hurts so bad, right? But it made me realize he’s right. I am doing all these so I can.
Play the role of my mom of I do all this for you. No, take some self responsibility. Why are you doing all this? I didn’t ask for this. You know, what do you want? Do what you want to do and let me come home to a happy whole person that we can build upon, not me coming home to a, you know, somebody that’s looking for validation.
That was a mic drop for me. I really think that you hit the nail on the head, wHether you are in a successful relationship that you are having to work at or whether you are going to have a successful after your relationship. It’s all about that self ownership. Yeah. And that is the key point that I think everyone should take away from any part of our episodes. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to atlantadivorcelawgroup.com/resources.
Our experienced Atlanta, Georgia divorce and family lawyers understand that divorce may be a complicated, emotional time for you. Many important decisions need to be made that consider your current situation as well as your future.
An attorney can work to help you emerge from your divorce in a better financial, legal, and personal situation than you may have imagined. Call today to schedule a consultation.
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
12735 Morris Rd Ext,
Building 200 Suite 300
Alpharetta, GA 30004
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
Atlanta Divorce Law Group
5755 North Point Pkwy
Suite 206
Alpharetta, GA 30022