Empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sara Khaki and Shawna Woods from Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And this is the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. Welcome to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. This is Sara Khaki with Atlanta Divorce Law Group, joined by our managing partner, Shawna Woods. Shawna, today we’re going to talk about gender roles and I will ask you to lead us through this.

sShawna (00:31)

Absolutely, and we’re talking about very specific gender roles, very traditional gender roles in which the role or the behavior of the person is seen as culturally appropriate based upon their assigned sex at birth. So for instance, know, way back in the day, would wear pink and boys would wear blue and you still see this, you know, when a baby is born.

A child is wrapped in blue or they’re wrapped in pink and at that point in time that is a cultural thing that they are now coming out and announcing their gender and in gender roles, especially when we talk about gender roles in a marriage, traditionally a woman did the housework and she did the childcare and the man would go out to work and provide for the family.

Nowadays, what we’re seeing Is nearly 70 % of all families that have both parents in the household also have both parents working outside the household. So it brings into question, do these quote unquote gender roles still work culturally for us in this day and age when we have both parents working outside the home?

Sara, you are a family in which both you and your husband work outside the home. Does gender come into play when you’re assigning roles or do you even assign roles in your family?

sSara (02:01)

We do assign roles. So our family very much goes by the belief that There’s got to be ownership over every responsibility in the home. And what does that mean? That means that who does what? Each person has duties in the home, something that they have to contribute. And it’s very clear that the things that need to get done for a home to run the way we want it to home, so it’s clean, there’s food, bills are taken care of, that sort of thing.

Who owns each one of these responsibilities. Can’t be, oh, well, whoever takes care of it, because it’s not going to get done if somebody doesn’t own that responsibility. And Sham and I both very much lean into our assigned genders. Like, I very much lean into being a girl and being a woman. He very much leans into being the man of the home. So we’re probably more traditional on how we operate with that. And I think we…

Have learned though over time that there has been times where I’ve had to, he’s had to take over more of what’s the stereotypical female gender role based on what’s going on in my life. And he’s, I’ve had to take over more of some of the stereotypical, the husband roles based on what’s going on in his life. So for instance, there were times when Hesham was doing

The more of the cooking and the cleaning in the household, especially during COVID actually. I was very busy making sure that the Illinida Force Law Group was thriving, our clients were being taken care of. I was also bearing a child, which is a big part of my… That’s right, that was a big, big part of my gender. He was, and we couldn’t have any help during COVID. So during that time…

sShawna (03:43)

Talk about gender roles.

sSara (03:52)

God bless him, he was cleaning the house, cooking, getting groceries, making sure that the kids were set up with their virtual schools while, you I was jumping in from calls from 8 a.m. All the way through 8 p.m. Just managing Atlanta Divorce Law Group and helping our clients get through what was a really, really hard time for so many. So at that point, I would say that if you were going to post 1970s, I might have looked more like

The more male role, the husband role in the family. And he was more help supporting that with taking charge of more what was the female roles. But in our status quo, We go by who does what best and who feels more strongly about something. Hisham has a very strong standard on how the kitchen should look at the end of the night. Right? That might be considered more of a female role, but because his standard

sShawna (04:33)

12.

sSara (04:51)

And is so high on it, he gets to do that job. I have a very high standard of how orderly the house looks and how pretty everything in the house looks and that there’s fresh flowers in the house. So I get to take ownership over that. Now, when it comes to paying the bills and taking care of all that, he’s so much more organized than I am in that way. So he gets to do that. I think when push comes to shove, if we were in a crazy situation where we’re

Fleeing the country and something catastrophic has happened, we probably would very much lean into our genders where I would, he would be the man and he would come in and take charge and say, okay, family, here’s what we’re doing. You do this, you do that. And I would tend to the children just because we are both so strong in our assigned genders. But based on circumstances, we’ll step in on who feels more strongly about what and who needs support in what area. I think that’s

Really what’s necessary in a modern partnership.

sShawna (05:54)

Do you feel that you have equal share in the chores and the duties with the children?

sSara (06:01)

Absolutely, I really do. Think that there are, again, leaning into our gender roles. When the kids are sick, I’m the one that steps in more because they usually want mommy. And that’s the case when I was little too. I wanted my mom when I was sick. If the kids need a straight talk, I don’t have a more powerful tool than a sham. Hey, you’re have a conversation with your dad. And that feels so good to have of, you know what?

Wait till dad gets home. Like I love that. As 1950s as that sounds, I love having that. With the kids’ sports, Hisham’s the one that gets very involved with the kids, because he’s the more athletic one in the family, right? And as much as kids love it when Hisham steps in and cooks or grills for them, there is something about, mom’s cooking tonight. They love that. So we do have a pretty traditional thing that we’ll lean into.

But we also have the fortune of both of us being able to get on our feet and say what needs to get done, who has the capacity to do it, who needs support and what, and go for it.

sShawna (07:08)

Know, interestingly enough, I had looked up some statistics before we talked about this in particular. Very much sO you’re following the trend in the statistics where a lot of people do feel that they are sharing 50-50 in the responsibilities. But 61 % of men say they have more play activities with the children and 60 % more men say they have more discipline of the children.

While 59 % of the women do more of the scheduling of the activities for the children.

sSara (07:45)

That’s right, play dates are on me.

sShawna (07:47)

And

55 % of the women say they’re the one who take care of the sick child. But what I find interesting is that 50 % because what we hear so often from either our male clients or the female clients is they feel like they’re bearing the brunt of whatever household chores or child rearing occurs. Right. And I think that’s a very good topic for people to have in their marriages.

How are you feeling with what kind of, whatever the assigned gender role is, how are you feeling I’m showing up for you and how can I show, how are you feeling I’m showing up? How can you show up? The conversation of what is it the role, your husband’s good at cleaning the kitchen and he likes it look a certain way. Hands down, I probably, if I would ever get married again,

The man’s gonna have to cook. I like cooking, but a guy who can cook is definitely on the list for me. It’s funny that these gender roles seem to be fluid at this time, where we don’t feel like somebody who’s cooking and cleaning is emasculated. Or a person who is doing the books, oftentimes all have women come in and they’re the ones who are in control of the finances.

sSara (09:03)

No,

sShawna (09:12)

Because they’re better at it because they’ve built a business or they’re CPAs or that’s their strong point. And I really think that when we’re talking about gender roles, we kind of have to take a step back and let it not affect us if we’re doing a traditional gender role as long as we’re both okay with it. And not letting it be the point of topic of, that’s a female thing.

sSara (09:34)

Yes.

sShawna (09:41)

Or that’s a male thing.

sSara (09:43)

So I think that’s exactly it because at the end of the day, how a partnership works, if we are just leaning on the stereotype of the gender role, we’re just going to the default mode, right? And I think that’s what society’s provided us with gender roles. It’s given us a default mode to say, if we’re not communicating, we’re not in agreement, we’re not talking, here’s a prescribed partnership of gender roles of

You tend to the children, you feed, you nurture, you take care, you protect, you provide, you make sure everything is safe. However, In a partnership, we lean into each other’s strengths and help each other, support each other through the weaknesses and communicate. And I think that most marriages start with the default rules. Actually, Sham and I, when we first moved in together, when we first got married, I remember thinking like, okay,

I gotta do the laundry and I was terrible at it. And so many times, poor guy had to go to work with like, you know, shirts that were turning pink and his favorite shorts being totally ruined and he’s so upset because his mom’s such a good laundry person and I was terrible at it and quickly had to learn, okay, Sara should stay away from the laundry, right? And I think that’s where the communication comes. Instead of just trying to…

Pick up whatever pieces that are assigned to your gender role, what are you actually good at and what can you be honest with yourself to say, I’m not good at, you’re not good at everything. And you can very much lean into your feminine or accept your masculinity and have parts of that gender prescription that you’re just not good at or it doesn’t attract you or you’re not into. We have friends who the woman is

Better athlete than the man, right? And so that’s who’s going to be the one throwing the ball with the kids. And that’s, that’s super cool. That’s what I hope is what This fluidity that we’re talking about gives us more permission to feel.

sShawna (11:53)

I think you couldn’t have said it better.

sSara (11:55)

Okay, awesome. Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to atlantadivorcelawgroup.com/resources.