sSara (00:05)

I am Sara Khaki with the Atlanta Divorce Law Group and I’m joined by Shawna Woods. Shawna, today we are going to talk about the circle of trusts. Yes, we are. The trust circle. What is the trust circle?

sShawna (00:30)

The trust circle. So very similar actually to people who understand that reference with meet the parents is are you are you you not in the circle of trust? And you can have many circles of trust, right? You can have a circle of trust that you develop with one group that you share certain things with and that may be your best girlfriend.

sSara (00:38)

What is it?

sShawna (01:03)

Right? That may be a couple of girlfriends and you guys develop a circle of trust within you where you know something that if you tell one person, it stays within this circle. You can trust them not only that it stays within this circle, but what they do with that information, how they accept or reject or treat that information. Is information that is about yourself or what’s going on with you. And developing trust circles are extremely important.

Right and it can be a family trust circle right aware you’ve developed You know your husband and you have a trust circle, right? And because I know you and I trust you and we talk about a lot of things I know your husband is in your circle of trust and by default then he’s also an Extenuated in my circle of trust, right?

Right, but that doesn’t always reciprocate to he trusts you as something, therefore it naturally comes to me. But knowing that the two of you have this relationship, I understand that you trust him, therefore something I may say does go to him. And knowing Kasham the way I do, I am perfectly comfortable with that circle of trust. I wouldn’t necessarily say that about all people who…

Trust either their spouse or someone else with information, right? Right. So I have to be very circumspect about if I’m sharing with one person who’s in their circle of trust.

sSara (02:40)

So it’s not just I have picked a good circle of trust of people. The next level thinking is who’s in the circle of trust of my people circle of trust. Because I should expect that whatever I share will travel to another circle.

sShawna (02:58)

And there are times when you guard yourself and say, This is between us. How much does that translate between a married couple? How much is that? Do you expect it? How much do you not expect it? Obviously, between the two of us, you’re the married one. When you develop a circle of trust,

Do you always let your girlfriends know or are they always expecting to understand that things they share with you will automatically, not that you tell everything, but they automatically be included with your house.

sSara (03:39)

I think my closest friends do. Expect that if they’re sharing something with me, it is going to make it to Hisham. Doesn’t mean it always does make it to Hisham. If it’s something that would possibly impact Hisham and I or our family, it will make it to Hisham. Sometimes girlfriends just need to talk, right? They need to be able to vent. Need to be able to let out. I don’t need to be… That’s a lot of sometimes information.

To go run to my husband with, right? But I think it is good practice for anybody who is sharing information with somebody else, especially when they’re going through big life transitions like the ones our clients are dealing with, to understand that you share something with your circle of trust, expect it to travel within their circle of trust as well. And I think that kind of, you know,

When you are in friendships, in relationships, if the more people can know about these things about you, the freer the relationship becomes, right? Like one of the reasons you and I have such a easy flowing relationship and work and in friendship is the fact that we have shared so many parts of our operation manual.

This is Sara Khakii’s operation manual. I know what Shawna Woods’ operation manual is. So that allows a lot more freedom in this friendship for it to grow, for it to move, for it to accomplish together. So you know, part of my operation manual is there’s not much, there’s probably nothing I keep from my husband. That creates a level of freedom in this friendship of expectation, right? Because expectations can kill relationships.

But if we can be honest about it, then, and be clear about it, that can really create a lot more freedom and ease in a relationship.

sShawna (05:39)

And there are several people who that is the relationship that they have with their spouse. I think when I start questioning their relationship, not yours, obviously, like I said, we’re very comfortable in sharing things, my knowing that it’s going to be shared with your husband. There are other people whose spouses I wouldn’t want them to be sharing with. And when they say that they keep things from their spouse, I’m very interested to understand

How you’re married to somebody who is no longer in your circle of trust.

sSara (06:13)

So do you believe that if somebody’s in your circle of trust, you need to be sharing everything with them?

sShawna (06:19)

I don’t think you need to be sharing everything with them. I think that if you have a pinnacle person who is your partner.

sSara (06:25)

I love that phrase.

sShawna (06:27)

Who is your life partner? Yes This is the person who you are traveling through time and space with right to create all these wonderful things for your family I think that if that person is not in your circle of trust Then that’s not your pinnacle person

sSara (06:44)

No, no, because the pedicle person is smacked in the middle, the middle dot of all these circles that keep radiating larger and larger.

sShawna (06:52)

Right, right and that doesn’t mean that you necessarily share everything right there are certain times that we will talk off the cuff that I am absolutely certain that you wouldn’t bring up with his and if nor would he want you to and

sSara (07:04)

And

That’s the part, it’s what actually needs to be known. Exactly. A lot of times when girls are bantering or guys are bantering or friends are bantering, there’s a high percentage of it that doesn’t need to go. But just having that understanding of each other, I think is really, really important. Let me back out for a second. How do you pick your circle of trust?

sShawna (07:32)

That’s a great question. Brene Brown. Yes, ma’am. We both love. She talks about this with a child of hers. She writes about it when she talks about how, do you build your circle of trust? And she talks about putting pebbles in a jar. Okay. So did you tell a person something and they kept it to themselves after you asked them to? Yes. Okay. You put the pebble in the jar. Did they remember your birthday? Okay.

sSara (07:47)

Okay.

sShawna (08:01)

Another pebble in the jar. Did they remember that you told them something hurt them and they avoided doing that in the future? Another pebble in the jar. So at the end of the day, you look and see, how many pebbles does this friend have in my jar? Did I have to take pebbles out? Did I have to put pebbles in? How many times can I trust them? So tRust is built.

And it’s built slowly and it’s built over time. You don’t automatically get to be in somebody’s circle of trust simply because your family member or your friend is in their circle. You have to build up that trust as well. So when a new person comes involved, like say you’ve got a new partner coming in with a friend that you’ve developed this trust circle with.

And this new partner automatically wants to be included. I sometimes back away from that friend and filter some of the things I say to them to test out what’s the trust level over here. Because I am very circumspect about certain things that I share, believe it or not, since I’ve shared a lot on this podcast. But there are certain things that I keep very inner circle, right?

sSara (09:03)

Okay. Right.

For sure

So are you the type of person who trusts people until they prove you otherwise or sound yes it sounds like you’re nodding your head no you’re more like you have to earn it and then you’re in there.

sShawna (09:32)

You have to earn it and then you’re in there. And then, and let me put it this way, there are certain things that I open up to all people and I allow them to back themselves out of my good graces. But when we’re talking about things that are very personal or may affect someone else, that is detrimental to somebody else’s wellbeing, that’s a very tight circle.

And you really have to earn your way in there. And I think it’s important, right? And you have a pinnacle person. I don’t necessarily have a pinnacle person that I share everything with. So I am very cautious about my inner circle.

sSara (10:19)

Right. So when you’re talking about this, was thinking about my circle of trust, just even outside of Hisham. And you know, I have my closest, closest, dearest friends who pretty much get everything pretty close to Hisham almost, not completely to Hisham’s level, almost. And then outside of that, I would say the criteria I use to decide is this something I share with this person or not is

Is it something that I need somebody to do something about? Because sometimes you just need to talk, right? And you don’t need anybody to tell you the solution, tell you here’s what you should do or fix it for you. You just need somebody to sort of unload, you know? And then I’m very intentional about sharing it with somebody that I feel safe with. What does safe mean? It means not feeling judged.

From the things you’re saying, not this person allowing you to have a different feeling about everything you’re describing today. Because I may feel A, about it right now while I’m hot. Tomorrow when I’ve cooled down, I may feel B, will you give me enough room to switch? Will you give me room to transition out of this and make that okay? That’s a huge criteria for me in my circle of trust. And then,

If it is something that I’m having a hard time with, let’s say I’m having a hard time with raising my daughter, are gonna try judge my child? Will you leave room to understand that I am a standard mom raising a daughter who’s also trying to learn her way versus judging the parties that are in my storytelling at the moment? I think these are big, big safety issues for me when I’m just wanting to share.

And unload my heart. Outside of that, if I’m going for advice, then I think it’s very important to be clear on your criteria of who are you getting advice from. We so often use our mentors in the wrong way. Not every one of your mentors, because hopefully most of us have had more than one, are equipped to give you advice on all things you need advice on, right?

I remember when I was little, I asked my dad, when you were fleeing Iran and taking us with you out of the country, who’d you ask, who’d you talk to? Did you tell anybody? Who mentored you through this decision? He said, I barely talked to anybody. I think he might’ve talked to a couple of people. And I was like, did you ask, talk to this family member, that family member, did you talk to your dad? And he goes, no. And I go, why not? Goes, none of them had ever done it.

They had never done that. You have to be very careful about who you choose to go pick advice from when you’re trying to set out to accomplish something or when you’re trying to solve an issue or a problem. Doesn’t mean that they’re not looking out for your best interests. Out of their kindness of their heart, they may actually stand in the way of something that could be life changing for you.

Probably 99 % of the people my dad could have shared this information with that I’m about to take my family, sell everything, get rid of all of our family belongings and heirlooms and make them into refugees in a foreign land that we don’t speak the language of. They would have been like, are you out of your mind? But you have to really be thoughtful about your circle of trust given what it is you’re trying to accomplish.

If it’s just sharing for the sake of sharing, that’s one thing. Then it’s a matter, I think, of safety, personal safety and personal emotional safety, really, more than anything, giving your room as a human to be flawed when you need to share like that. But when it’s out to accomplish something like I’m thinking about getting a divorce, like I’m thinking about moving my family, you have to be so thoughtful about

sSara (14:37)

Who are you going to get that advice from? When I was leaving the first law firm I was working for, I went to my uncle, one of my uncles, and I said, you know, I’ve put in my resignation, I’m gonna go start my own firm. And he looked at me he said, of course they’ll take you back if things don’t work out, right? And I have to tell you, those are dangerous words.

sShawna (15:06)

Yeah.

sSara (15:08)

And this is why My dad taught me when an idea is fertile and when a thought is fertile, guard it. Be protective over it. Be secretive with it. Be very thoughtful about who you share it with because when it’s fertile, it’s not that viable yet and somebody could squash it with their love. My uncle had nothing but love. He was truly concerned.

Right? We’ve worked so hard to get these children to this country so that they can have a steady paycheck and earning and a W-2 and you’re throwing it all away to go start a business when you don’t have to? And take all this risk? Will they take you back? And of course I look up to my uncle and I love him so much so I’m thinking in my head, my God, what have I done? And it built all this doubt in me. And that’s the danger of not picking that circle carefully.

sShawna (15:58)

You said a lot of really amazing things in those stories. First, when we talk about circle of trust, you have different circles of knowing which circle to go to or what particular thing. And sometimes that circle may be only you. And sometimes that circle is only you, not only for the mental and emotional well-being, but in your case or your father’s case,

sSara (16:17)

Yes

sShawna (16:28)

Very well life and death at certain parts and protecting the people that you need to protect. Sometimes it’s I’m not sharing this with you because I’m protecting you. And sometimes it has to be because I am protecting me. But regardless, you always have to develop that circle of very close people who can be honest with you.

sSara (16:41)

Yes.

Yes.

sShawna (16:56)

And call you to task, but never use it against you.

sSara (17:00)

And a circle that also is willing to say, know what? I’m not an expert on this. That’s a huge person. Thank you, Shawna. It’s a great one.

sShawna (17:09)

Absolutely.

It was a really good topic.