Episode 2 : Setting Your Boundaries

s Sara Khaki 00:04

Empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sarah khaki and Shawna woods from Atlanta divorce law group. And this is the happily ever after divorce podcast. All right, Sarah khaki here with Atlanta divorce law group for the happily ever after divorce podcast, joined by our Managing Partner of Atlanta divorce law group hawna woods. Hey, Shawna,

s Shawna Woods 00:26

Hey, Sara.

s Sara Khaki 00:26

how are you?

s Shawna Woods 00:27

I’m good, how are you?

s Sara Khaki 00:28

I’m excited. So today, we’re going to talk about setting boundaries, and specifically, setting boundaries in relationships that you deem to be toxic. I asked you this question. Last time, when we were talking about toxic relationships? Do you have a formula Shawna?

s Shawna Woods 00:45

I don’t have a formula.

s Sara Khaki 00:47

Man, And I love that because that’s really what so many of these books and the How to tips these days are or the Instagram like, top three things to do when you’re in a toxic relationship and set a boundary blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, Okay, this was everything I needed to know, not. But let’s let’s get real and talk from experience. We, in our earlier podcast, we’re talking about toxic relationships we both openly talked about having had toxic friendships, toxic relationships with family. And what what have you done in the past, in order to kind of distance yourself from a relationship that you felt was toxic?

s Shawna Woods 01:30

You know, there’s extremes, you know, and it depends very much rather on the person who’s also in that toxic relationship. If you can recognize in yourself, I am in a toxic relationship. I don’t like myself in this relationship. I certainly don’t like the other person’s relationship, and changing that. And if you have an open enough relationship, if you have a good enough foundation with this person to say, hey, we’re in this this dynamic that’s not good for either one of us. Can we work on it? Right? I think that’s boundary one. Can we work on it, identifying it? Can we work on it? There are some times that are extremes. And I’ve personally had to simply
cut people from my lines and say, I can’t let you in my life. Because every time I do, this relationship isn’t beneficial.

s Sara Khaki 02:19

And we talked in the earlier episode about how if there was to be a formula for if you’re in a toxic relationship or not, is to just really look at yourself and ask, How am I showing up? Yeah, my 50% this relationship is me and that 50% is showing up toxic, then, you know, that’s my biggest sign. For me personally, the journey on setting boundaries has been more about respecting those boundaries that I set myself. Because there’s a lot of talk about specifically with narcissists, which is a common topic and the area of law family law that we practice with, you know, being married to a narcissist, and one of the identifiers of a narcissist, they don’t
respect boundaries. But what do we do in response to that? What do we do in response when somebody doesn’t respect your boundaries? Are you respecting your own boundaries? Because so much of that is, are you actually here to keep those boundaries up, I have found myself in friendships, and in relationships and in family relationships, where I had to distance myself or cut it off, because I wasn’t able to keep the boundary myself. Yeah. And that’s, that was a big woof, like, Whoa, I could set these boundaries, but what am I doing with them? Because it’s almost like telling somebody, here’s the wall, don’t cross the wall, because I’m too uncomfortable to ever tell you when you cross the wall, I don’t ever want to have to do that confrontation. Some people will be healthy and empowered enough, that will actually understand that about you. I think there are, I have some great friendships and great family relationships where I’ve actually said, listen, here’s my wall And I’m not always going to be comfortable to tell you that you’ve crossed the wall, you know, and I’ve been the other person has been such an aware person that they’re like, Okay, like, I don’t want to put her in a situation where she’s uncomfortable and has to call me out on it. But that’s not everybody. Tell me a little bit about your experience of that.

s Shawna Woods 04:21

You said a couple of the things that really were listening to someone else’s podcast earlier. And they were talking a little bit about how boundaries really aren’t for the other person, right boundaries are for you. Because if somebody like you said crosses your wall, it’s up to you saying now what? this boundary is for me, right? Do I address this with them? Or do I say you’ve touched that one too many times? I’m not going to engage with you anymore. Right? And that can be a healthy response. Sometimes the healthiest response is the boundary you’re not able to respect My boundaries, yeah, therefore I’m not going to be in this relationship. And I’m going to step outside of it. My daughter and I have really healthy boundaries with each other. And I have to credit her for that. I had her so young. And oftentimes when you have a child very young, you basically grow up with them. And there can be some meshing of things. And you know, she was such a wonderful and matured so very early, it was like, so these are the things we can talk about. These are things I’m uncomfortable talking about. And I remember looking at her and I thought, you’re so mature. Where’d you come from? You’re sure you’re my child? I would have never at her age when she did that Feel comfortable doing that to my own mom. Because, well, you’re not supposed to have boundaries with your mom

s Sara Khaki 05:57

I mean, boundaries is a new popular trend. It’s trying to right, say boundaries are trendy.

s Shawna Woods 06:04

Yes. And I do think sometimes people set them way too much. And they build so many walls around themselves, that they’re not letting any relationships in. Right? And that can be a problem in and of itself.

s Sara Khaki 06:18

And yes, that’s exactly what I have learned is I come from a very big Persian family. So very similar to what you’re describing with your daughter, there’s, there’s a line in Spanglish the movie where the daughter says to the mother, it’s kind of makes me think of you and Sarah, where she says, I need space from you. And she goes and grabs from daughter’s arms, because there isn’t a space between me and you. And that was my family like what? like you want space and go close your room door and your bedroom? What does that even mean? That’s crazy. We all live on top of each other, and we know everything about each other. So the idea of boundaries is, is new to me. It’s not instinctual to me, to me, when you’re close to somebody, you let them fully in. you wouldn’t even need boundaries because you’re so safe with them.

And it’s a little bit idealistic. And it sets up for a lot of hurt feelings at times, but you suck it up and you keep moving. I think it’s good this place we’re going to we’re all learning how to set boundaries. But like we’ve talked about before the culture we’re in right now It’s such a reaction to the past, whatever 100 years that the pendulum is so far the other way right now and the time will come when the pendulum will, you know, you know swing a little bit more in the middle. But I do think about this because I have friend and I will name her by name because she’s so brilliant. She’s from New Mexico as Shawna is you guys must have amazing
people there. Davina doesn’t need to even verbalize boundaries Divina embodies her boundaries, you do not step on that lady’s toes, you do not, you know just by the way she presents herself, the way she speaks, and the way she cares, and how open and honest she is that she just embodies her boundaries. And I honestly wish I could say I’m the same way, I’m not, I have to actually practice either distancing myself, setting boundaries, because my culture is we’re all one, we’re going to be in it together, we’re going to be in each other’s face and you know, screw up and learn. Whereas I watched the Davina doesn’t even have to say a word, these are my boundaries, you just respect them as you watch them. And I think that the where that comes from is a very strong sense of self and self esteem of this is what I am, this is who I am, you take it or you leave it and if you stay with it, you’re going to be loved on so strongly.

And so as the warmest place you can be is in Davina’s Embrace. And it’s the coldest place you can be outside of her embrace. But to be her friend is a privilege, right? And you and that’s what I think somebody that embodies having a boundary is like, and I think that those of us who are still learning the boundary setting, we at times and I put myself completely at this end of the spectrum, we can have such a fragile mindset about keeping the boundary and honoring our own boundaries that we find ourselves isolating ourselves. We find ourselves not being as warm and giving as we wish we could be because we haven’t learned that balance yet of hey,
I’m not responsible for Shawna. I’m responsible to Shawna, right. And that’s I think where it all really comes from is that strong self esteem where you say I’m responsible for me, you’re responsible for you. And if we’re in a relationship, I have certain responsibilities to you that I’m not responsible for you.

s Shawna Woods 09:49

I think it was an excellent way to put that especially we’re talking about family dynamics. There’s boundaries within families get mushy, they get soft, yeah. And they get in meshed sometimes times that it’s really important to maintain a sense of self, even within the family. And like you said, you know, you come from this big Persian family and I come from a family, it was like, Don’t talk outside the family. Yeah, you keep your problems inside the family, You know, it was like the big round boundary outside the family, the family, the circle of trust. But it wasn’t always trust, right. And I think that’s what really happens when you have those boundaries that are protecting, quote, unquote, the family, but not necessarily the individuals within the family. Right. And those individuals aren’t taught that they’re allowed to have boundaries within a family. Right? Right. You’re allowed to say, I’m uncomfortable with what is going on in this family, whether it’s your your spouse, or whether you’re the child or you know, even, you know, one of the extended family members saying, hey, there’s some boundaries that are being crossed that we all need to start discussing. And it does come from a good sense of self. And that’s one of the things that, you know, when people come to us, and they say, Well, I’m staying together for the children, like, are you making an example within your family? Are you making this example within your relationship that you want your children to be when they grow up, because that’s what’s going to happen.

s Sara Khaki 11:19

100%. the way we set boundaries, that’s, that’s what our children learn. That’s one of the biggest things children are watching and learning. And even with our, in our own relationships with them, I mean, Sarah taught you how to set boundaries, right by showing you. But you know, I learned this because I, you know, mommy guilts can be such a big thing when you’re working, and then your child comes up to you and wants to play. And I had to learn very early on and say, Hey, right now, for the next however many hours, I’m going to be working. But that means that at this time, it’s done, and I’m going to be fully dedicated to you. And in this these hours is mommy’s time to work, or may not be work, maybe that I need to just take a moment to myself, but that even learning that I hope is teaching my children how to set the boundaries for themselves. And really what I hope for this generation, the culture we’re in now that we can really through our self esteem and our own self security and strong sense of self, just day to day teach people how to treat us, because that’s where people learn how to treat you, is you you teach them how that we don’t have to go into these isolation, and set up these walls and set up these boundaries. Because, you know, I’ve seen that a lot where people just can’t even be communicated with, you can’t even have an open, honest conversation without being called you know, oh my gosh, you’re gaslighting me and oh, my gosh, you’re breaking my boundaries? Well, I’m glad if that’s the first step in order for us to grow stronger. But at some point, could you work and live and build and create with other all sorts of personalities around you, without being so scared about your boundaries, you know, being broken?

s Shawna Woods 13:06

Yeah, that’s the exact thing that we think, see, when somebody has had either no boundaries, or they’ve allowed their boundaries to be so broken down, then they set them so far out away from themselves, they set them so high, their boundaries so high, they’re not letting anything.

Yeah, they’re not letting love and they’re not letting you know the joy of life in because they’re so scared of not knowing when to say stop. That’s my real boundary is

s Sara Khaki 13:34

It’s a, it’s a sense of not trusting oneself, that you’re going to speak up for yourself. And that’s a that I think, is one of the biggest things we want for our clients who are going through this process, they’ve probably had tolerated so much in their marriage, they’ve probably tolerated so many other boundaries being broken, they’ve probably broken so many promises to themselves. And the sense of self and the sense of I will show up for myself, and I will take care of me and I will speak up for me, is shattered, and it’s fragile. So when they’re first going through this, they have to put on a big shield and a big guard to protect themselves. And I’ve seen it in family members who have gone through divorce that initial few years afterwards, like there’s this big wall up. And it’s to protect this fragile thing that they’re trying to piece back together. My hope is that when people go through this process, they do it with such a clear journey of who they are, who they want to be in creating that person. And when they deliver on that promise to themself that, like we talked about how self esteem is built, how self security is built there, they can say, Whoa, I can look myself in the mirror and I’m proud of how I went through that journey. And I actually sat through my promises and I delivered on my promise to myself. What else can I do for myself right now, you know, and that I think the muscles will come back off and you can take those shields off. And maybe you don’t need to walk around putting up walls for people and you can just embody it.

s Shawna Woods 15:02

I couldn’t agree more. I think that when you when you wake up and you’re like I like me today. I’m good with me today. How can I show up with for other people today? that’s when you can start setting healthy boundaries is because you’re good with you. Now you can look at other people and say How am I good with you too?

s Sara Khaki 15:25

And to leave this with a quick tactical tip. I’m going to keep a nod to my friend Davina. whenever she’s not okay with something. She’ll just this is the line she uses and I will gift everybody that’s listening to use this line. I am not available for x and it could be anything.

Thanks, Shawna.

s Shawna Woods 15:49

Thanks Sara.

s Sara Khaki 15:50

Thanks for listening to the happily ever after divorce podcast. If you’d like to learn more, go to Atlanta divorce law group.com forward slash resources