Episode 56: Having Compassion For The Narcissist

s Sara 00:04

empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sarah khaki and Shawna woods from Atlanta divorce law group. And this is the happily ever after divorce podcast. Welcome to another episode of The happily ever after divorce podcast I’m Sara Khaki with Atlanta divorce law group. And I’m joined by our very own Managing Partner Shawna Woods. Shawna our topic today make some people mad.

s Shawna 00:31

That’s okay.

s Sara 00:33

Today we’re talking about finding compassion for the narcissist you’ve been dealing with you have dealt with or you’re feeling stuck with. I think that’s the reason we’re concerned about this making some people mad is because if you are married to a narcissist, or you’re related to a narcissist you might have felt a lot of abuse from them, you might have felt a lot of gaslighting probably taken years to even realize what you’ve been facing. And sometimes you didn’t realize that you’re not the crazy one. But you’re a little bit crazy maker. How is it possible to at some point, find compassion for your abuser.

s Shawna 01:13

I think you hit on my key type of works there, you said at some point. And when you’re first dealing with the trauma of dealing with the narcissist either still currently married to the person or co parenting, you know, subsequent to a divorce, or a family members, right, you’re still feeling that trauma, and you’re still dealing with that trauma, it is really hard to have compassion for the person who instilled that trauma in you. So the first thing I think you have to do is work through your own stuff. Right? Right, you have to get help. Before you can have compassion for someone else; you have to heal before you can give that compassion, especially to the person who was the perpetrator of that abuse.

s Sara 02:01

I thought of this when I was talking to one of our clients, female business owner, who was married to a narcissist for many years. And he tried to isolate her from family try to isolate her from growing her business, try to isolate her even from your her relationship with their son. And for many years, she just really thought something’s wrong with her. And she was working very hard on herself to be a better spouse, be a better mom be better at her job. And at some point through therapy, and through trying everything and realizing that this person doesn’t want the best for me. This person just wants to recreate the drama cycle over and over right away. As the toxic person I’m dealing with. She the blindfold kind of came off, and she realized that whoa, I’m actually been enrolled in a abusive relationship. And I played a part in it. And I’ve enabled it. And once she worked through that, and accepted her part of it, and accepted that she was playing along in the narcissist narrative, and agreed that it no longer worked for her had been surprising more. She was able to work towards what does she want for herself? What are her life goals? What’s the relationship she wants with her child? what does she want in her future? And what’s what does she want for her business and how she would grow her business. And she started moving towards that direction. And the narcissist behavior became more and more erratic because they were losing control. And the problem was, it no longer had a sting on her. His abuse, his words, his actions were completely ineffective. It’s almost like that Drama Triangle to talk about from the power of Ted book that we’ve mentioned a few times here, you have the perpetrator, you have the rescuer, and you have the victim. And when the persecutor is no longer able to keep you in the victim role, you’re just not playing along in that pain along with that anymore. You’ve moved yourself out of that dysfunction Drama Triangle into a triangle of empowerment. I am a creator. And I want to be a coach for the people in my life or I want to be a challenge for the people in my life where I want to be a teacher but people in my life not a persecutor not a victim, not a rescuer. It’s almost like you’re speaking to a person
from another dimension.

s Shawna 04:38

Yes, right. Absolutely. To use the buzzwords out there. When you are no longer triggered by the narcissist they lose their supply. Yes. And once they lose their supply, they do lose it a little bit. They’re going to try to get it by doing more and they get more erratic, get more erratic, They get more out of control with all of the things that the narcissists do. But just like what you’re saying, with this wonderful business woman who decided, No, that’s no longer working for me, I’m not going to be in this dynamic anymore. Once she’s been able to remove herself from it, right, that’s when you’re able to be compassionate, because you’re able to see that person, a little bit of this at a distance, right. And to keep them in that and say, I understand now why they’re acting, how they’re acting, I’m just not letting those actions affect me.

s Sara 05:35

So we have this podcast episode on understanding and, that’s where compassion comes from. Being able to understand someone, when and then gaining compassion from there, because Being able to understand someone, when and then gaining compassion from there, because you can’t have compassion for something you can’t understand, right? And it doesn’t mean that you are validating that their behaviors are okay. That doesn’t mean that you are enrolling in engaging in it. But you may be able to from afar, because now you are a different dimension, you’re on a empowerments dimension, while they’re in a drama and toxicity dimension. You can from that sort of higher level of awareness, look at them and say, Man, that they, they’re, they’re a stuck in an emotional age. And we’ve talked about that in previous episode, man, something must have not been gone right for them some point in life, and they never healed from there. They never outgrew that. Or maybe they had a really rough childhood. And they never outgrew that. And they are still fighting for that child to get its validation and self esteem that needs to be special, its appreciation, all of those things. And I can’t participate in that. But man, I have compassion for that.

s Shawna 06:50

Absolutely. And that is exactly where I think we need to come from is thinking they didn’t get here alone, right? Our personalities are so informed, and formed by all of the things that we went through as a child. And when you do the reading on it, you’re right. There’s there’s actually two types of we’ve seen formations of narcissists. And there’s a couple of different types of narcissists. But what you’re talking about is the trauma, right? Or the lack of support or neglect. And that’s why they’re constantly seeking that validation. And for me that’s easier to be compassionate for than the other time, which have formed by being basically what we used to call the spoiled child or the overindulged child, you know, they grew up with parents who, every time they lifted a finger said, Oh, my God, nobody’s lifted a finger before look at this child, and really did treat them in that way that they thought they really were more important than everyone Very entitled. think of the comic strip, Richie Rich idea. And this doesn’t always have to come with money. You know, there’s always, it could be emotional, and nobody’s ever going to be good enough for my son, or daughter, that kind of thing. So that those are how those for me that type of narcissist is harder to have compassionate for, or compassion for. But I do take a step back and realize that wasn’t them doing it. They weren’t born thinking, you know, they’re the most important thing in the world, that it was their parents and how that was a different type of parental abuse. I do struggle with that. I’m not gonna lie.

s Sara 07:55

entitled – never had to earn anything I think overall it is it is hard to ask somebody to have compassion for a narcissist, because there’s very little vulnerability or authenticity about a narcissist, right? Everything is coming from a place of taking, everything’s coming from a place of getting one up on you, putting you down to win or giving, exposing false charming personality that isn’t real, it’s not authentic. So when you’re seeing the good side of them, that’s inauthentic when you’re seeing the ugly side of them. It’s harmful to you. So it’s really hard to get to this place. But I do recall at this client when I could actually see her telling me all these things he continues to do, such as reaching out to her family members reaching out to her friends saying terrible things about her, trying to create more conflict between her and her family, or her and her friends. And she almost said these things about him like she felt sad for him like man, I’m here building this amazing business, you know, being profitable in my life and building this relationship with my son. I’m finding kind of coming out of being so isolated by him, making some quality friendships and growing my relationship with my parents and all this effort he’s putting into energy and effort and thought he’s putting into bringing me down instead of working on himself. And it’s not working. And it’s just sad. Yeah. And it was empowering. It was so empowering. After all those years of marriage, she had that feeling towards them, instead of feeling like a victim, right? Or feeling of what’s wrong with me, I need to fix myself, or just feeling broken.

s Shawna 10:29

And I’m gonna go out on a limb and think that she’s got some really healthy boundaries with him. Yes, even while having compassion. And I think therein lies a little crux of what we want to get out with most of our conversations regarding narcissists is that if you don’t set these boundaries, if you allow them to continue to get the reaction that they want to continue to abuse, you’re not going to be able to have compassion for them, because you’re still lostin this cycle,

s Sara 10:59

well, they’re bringing you back into their dimension, right?

s Shawna 11:01

And also, there’s two things that I do want to just have a compassion for a person does not mean that you’re going to allow them to be part of your life.

s Sara 11:10

Absolutely. That I think, men and women, but mostly women need to hear that Yes. Because that’s our maternal instincts, something, strokes, our compassion, we are our mother caretaker, instincts kick in, and we want to go take care of it.

s Shawna 11:28

Absolutely. I have a person who was I considered a good friend for a number of years, like four or five years, and I’ve had to cut ties with this person because of how their actions made me feel, and made me react, I did not like how I was showing up in this relationship. And we’ve talked to this before, this is just a friend, I have a lot of love and compassion for this woman, I simply have no desire to have her in my life, because it’s not healthy for me to have her around when she can’t change. So, again, that’s why I’m thinking even this marriage, right? I’m gonna have this compassion for a person doesn’t mean I have to stay married,

s Sara 12:09

And you may not be the right person to even help them gain that awareness. That’s the other part of being in a toxic relationship and realizing I’m not even showing up, I don’t like who I am here. Right? Right, you may be the worst person that can either challenge that toxic person to step out of that dimension. So the best thing you could do sometimes is get out of there yourself and hope that it’s a wake up call for them. In our divorce cases, I see clients who reach this level of, I’m going to keep using the word dimension, because I’m I’m liking it, I like the sort of graphic that puts in our mind, when they reach that dimension of empowerment, and they’ve completely left behind that dysfunctional triangle, the Drama Triangle, they’re able to so much better figure out how to navigate through their divorce. Because sometimes with the narcissist, if we can let their words and let their actions and neurotic behavior lose its sting and lose its control, and we somewhat become fearless over it, they lose that hold that grip they have on you, and you’re able to make much better calculated decisions. Some examples I can think of is
when you know, they want to be viewed a certain way, of how the divorce happens. It’s very clear that this was an abusive relationship, crying, had to get out of it. But that person might have some sort of status in the community might have some sort of way of wanting to be viewed and can we hand that ego to them in order and let them be right about who they think they are and who how they want to proceed in order to get our client what they want? And if you have a client that’s removed themselves far enough, the Drama Triangle is now in an empowered them that they mentioned. They may say, Sure, let me be the bad guy. Let him think whatever he wants to think. And, you know, make this irreconcilable differences or whatever.

And we move on.

s Shawna 14:26

Yeah It is so important when negotiating with a narcissist that you find some way even if it’s a small way to quote unquote, let them get the win. Yes. And they need that to be able to walk away. They need the last word, they need to have that last negotiation so that if you’re going to make an offer of settlement, you want to build something in there that you know is your giveaway, right? That they’re going to come back and say, Absolutely not. I’m not doing that. We weren’t really asking for that Anyway.

s Sara 14:55

We call that this disarming the narcissists. Yes and We will have a separate episode on that.

That’s a good one Shawna.

s Shawna 15:04

Thank you.

s Sara 15:06

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