Episode 57: What is Your Emotional Age?

sSara (00:01)

Empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sara Khaki and Shawna Woods from Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And this is the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. Welcome to another episode of the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. I’m Sara Khaki with Atlanta Divorce Law Group and I’m joined by our very own managing partner, Shawna Woods. Shawna, our conversation today is about what is your emotional age? And let’s break that up a little bit, clarify what we even mean.

Like that. For me, this phrase comes from work that I personally did with one of my coaches mentioned here before David Nabel. And one of the meditative practices David would put us through and his team would put us through what we were doing this successful mindset coaching with him is he would have you close your eyes and take you through this process where you would imagine meeting yourself at different ages.

sShawna (00:35)

Okay.

sSara (01:04)

And he would ask you, go meet your spiritual self, go meet your intellectual self. One of my favorite meditations he would do is he would ask you to meet your emotional self. And he would say, what’s her age? What’s her pain? What is she dealing with? What does she face? And you would actually, you you would imagine for me a five-year-old Sara, for instance, you would actually sit down with five-year-old Sara.

And in this meditation you would have and you would talk to her and you would ask her, are your hopes? Are your dreams? What are your fears? What’s going on in your life? And you would have a real conversation with that emotional self that showed up in that moment for you. I know this sounds like a lot of voodoo for some people that might’ve never done any kind of coaching or therapy, but it’s incredibly effective to become aware of different parts of our childhood.

Or different parts of us growing up that might’ve had some sort of impact on us or we’ve gone through something difficult or something challenging or even just an incredible life experience where it really made a profound effect on our life. And from time to time, we might revisit ourselves at that age emotionally. Even though you’re in your 30s, 40s, 50s or 60s, you may…

Face events in life that triggers that age for you back all over again, right? Like for me, for instance, I had a profound life experience at 13 coming to this country and not speaking the language and being thrown into an American middle school having to figure it out. So if you ever put me in a very difficult situation where I don’t think I am prepared or don’t have the tools to face that situation, if I’m not aware, 13-year-old Sara may show up.

And thankfully 13 year old Sara thrived and figured it out. But she also has a underlying belief that you’re on your own. Figure it out. It’s on you kid. You got this. You can’t bother mom and dad about this. This is on you. Go be brave and be quiet. That’s my emotional age that can be triggered if I’m facing a conflict that I think I’m alone in.

That’s my side of the story on the emotional age. You tell me what you think of when I tell you what’s your emotional age.

sShawna (03:34)

Well, love that you just explained that and the process that you’re talking about, I’ve actually seen a video about this as well. And they were talking through like a big, your eyes. What would you tell this person? Tell them it’s going to be okay. You know, kind of teaching you how to parent that child that you were emotionally so that you can come of being stuck at an emotional age.

So what you’re talking about is moments where you feel that way, right? And although I hate the word triggered, it’s, it really is every use. But what we’re talking about is very much like, you know, you hear something, you see something that instantly have a memory, but we’re actually being, we feel like we’re still back in that position for a moment. And that’s like that fear reaction. So that’s momentarily about going back to an emotional age.

sSara (04:07)

Just over using

sShawna (04:29)

When I think about an emotional age, I think about people who are stuck permanently. They’re living their lives at a very immature age because of something that they haven’t worked through primarily from childhood. And a lot of people who would be alcoholics or drug addicts are often stuck at an emotional age that is quite young because they’re not doing the work. Narcissists. Narcissists are the same.

They’re not doing the work to become emotionally mature. They’re continuing this cycle. And you see it a lot with in our profession. And you have somebody come and tell me how their spouse is acting out. This isn’t the person I married. And you can really think they’re acting like a teenager.

sSara (05:17)

That’s the most common age group we see in divorce law. Is somebody coming being frozen as a teenager?

sShawna (05:26)

Yes, and it often is seeking a sexual attention. Validation. Validation, you know, losing a lot of weight or having a lot of surgery to make themselves physically feel better. Or spending. Reckless spending is another one. You know, those are the type of things when I think emotional immaturity, you what emotional age are you? Those are the type of things I think about. But I also agree that there is that one

sSara (05:39)

And breakfast.

sShawna (05:54)

I think we all experience. I don’t think there’s a human being out there who can say, I’ve experienced no trauma in my life. There was nothing that bad happened to me ever. So I think we can pinpoint that and know if a fear response is at us, that we can go back to that point in our life and knowing how to deal with that is essential to getting over the hump.

So I think there’s two different discussions that we’re having the momentary ones where we’re stuck in a fear and the emotional immaturity of some people who simply don’t even recognize that they’re not emotionally the same age as their physical age.

sSara (06:36)

You know how I would decipher those two because, know, Sean and I mentioned this before. We don’t talk about what we’re going to say before our podcast, but we write our notes and we come in and have this conversation. Usually we end on the same path. And I actually wrote a note to myself. There are those who have a muscle memory that pops back, like an emotional muscle memory of, okay.

Put in that corner again. I remember how this looked when I was five, when I was 10, when I was 13. I’m gonna respond with that. And then there’s the ones who are stuck there and never move past it. Think about our friend, Barry Schulman, who came to our firm and did predictive indexes on our entire team. And he listens to this. He loves you very, you did an amazing job. He used the functioning, adaptable adults.

Remember that? I do. And I think that’s the difference. Think we’re talking about, we talking about a functioning adult that can adapt and move past and have the EQ and self-awareness versus this person is not a functioning adult. And I think that’s the person gets stuck in that age and never goes past it.

sShawna (07:47)

Absolutely, and we’re seeing functioning adult a lot of these people who are stuck in this backwards emotional age can be functioning in certain aspects of their life They may actually be high achievers at work But what happens when something happens at work that they’re emotionally not prepared? It’s like a teenager in the office, right? How they release it when they come home or even when we see these growth rage incidents that’s

sSara (08:00)

Right.

Or how they release it when they come home.

sShawna (08:17)

A huge sign of emotional immaturity. You’re unable to regulate your emotions in crisis situations, right? We’re going back to a very basic, you know, type of emotional experience that we have when we were younger. And we do see those, but how to recognize it in yourself, I think, is a huge thing, because how do you know if you have a momentary reaction?

sSara (08:42)

Great.

sShawna (08:43)

Do you even recognize that when that happens? Or how do you reflect and say, have I not matured emotionally so that I can be in a healthy, substantive relationship?

sSara (08:55)

So when we talking about being triggered, yes. When you mentioned that, what I think about is when you’re triggered or something kind of kicks that emotional muscle memory up and tells you I’m back in that form. There must have been as a child when you froze at that point, there must have been a child basic need that probably didn’t get met, right? Where there was a basic need, meaning self-esteem.

And meet somebody that adult to build that self-esteem for you or for your safety, right? Protection protection or some sort of a security, whether it’s just financial or knowing your parents are okay, something like some basic need to not get met. And it’s probably now as an adult, I think the way to exercise awareness over these trigger points that kickstarts that emotional.

Muscle memory is to know what is the need in this situation that is coming up for me that is not being met and I never gained the muscle memory or the emotional strength to express this need to myself or to others. So I made some notes on possible needs that should could come up because like you said, how does this manifest itself and manifest itself in adults who

Are seeking validation in places that as I’m functional and I’m healthy, adults who are seeking appreciation beyond reason or seeking appreciation from people that aren’t available to give it to them, or it’s not appropriate in the need to be right. Right. I see that a lot with a narcissist for sure, where there’s just like, I will go down this hill, you and myself in the foot to be right about the circumstance.

So I think that when somebody is seeking needs that aren’t being met, and it is basically those needs, but the bottom line of those needs is self-esteem, security, safety. And somewhere that was missed, and now they are still chasing that till all the way through adulthood without any awareness that that’s what you’re really chasing. I also wrote some notes on how that manifests itself in actual.

Actually with cases that we see. Like we talk about seeking attention outside of marriage, taking everything personal. You see that as a adult that is frozen in a childhood age.

sShawna (11:24)

Yes.

Absolutely

When they assume everything the other person is doing is pointed towards them is about them Because think about it when we are children that is our world we everything is about yes We have such a small world and not being able to recognize that This other person has their own emotional age has their own things they’re going through. It’s probably not even directed at you

sSara (11:57)

I mean, I have, you know, a three-year-old, eight-year-old, and an 11-year-old. And I’ll tell you, when they’re younger, like, basically under 10, you give one child something, it has nothing to do with the other child. The other child says, that’s unfair. What about me? And me takes it personal. We actually see that manifest itself in adults. But they will phrase it something else, but the bottom line is they took something personal.

sShawna (12:16)

Absolutely.

sSara (12:23)

Because there’s another underlying need for appreciation, validation, or need to be right that came from a lack of security, self-esteem, or safety that was never properly addressed. Not facing the issues of the marriage.

sShawna (12:39)

That’s a huge one. Yes. And I do think it’s combined that lack of self-awareness, right? I don’t want to face that issue. It’s their issue. Yes. They need help. They need to do something. Even when someone has been wronged, we’ll take adultery for the example. The other person has committed adultery, but where is the ownership of what happened before the adultery?

sSara (12:40)

Baiting their head in the scene.

sShawna (13:07)

Right where was the marriage going before the. Thanks to get it to that point that’s a hard reality that is a lot of very very much emotional experiences to be able to get there but you’re right it’s the lack of self-awareness the lack of nothing is my fault.

sSara (13:09)

Alright, it takes two to get it to that point.

Have breaking down anytime things get heated, right? People that cannot have a direct communication, cannot handle when things, become beyond the superficial level, right? And it’s somewhere along the line that may trigger something from childhood or as young adults that makes them feel unsafe, causes problems for their self-esteem.

Or security, so then it triggers that muscle memory. This one’s interesting for me, because I see this a lot in our cases, needing quick fixes and easy solutions.

sShawna (14:08)

Well, that is very childish. Just think about it. We want instant reaction. Want instant satisfaction, instant validation, and that is a primary emotion when we are children because we don’t understand the concept when you’re very young of time at all.

sSara (14:15)

Validate

I think that it is perfectly fine to want to strategize and build your life around moving towards more ease, more grace, things being more simple, but nowhere in life where you promise that things were just going to be easy, handed to you, and, you know, things that are worth having and working for are supposed to come quickly to you. I think that’s, again, a childlike response.

That might be triggered by something that’s coming from the past.

sShawna (15:01)

Absolutely, and think it comes from like what you said, well alluded to anyway, insecure attachments as a child.

sSara (15:09)

Right, right. This one’s probably mine that I have to build a lot of awareness over, especially as I, you know, being an owner of a business and leading a team and just feeling like everything has to be handled by you and can’t rely on anyone. You, you, know you experienced that too.

sShawna (15:28)

I’m laughing because our senior paralegal and I are working really hard on my letting things go a little bit to other people. And she laughs at me every time I tell her I’m working on it.

sSara (15:37)

Yes.

Well, maybe you need to ask yourself, at what age did I develop this? Yes, yes, I know you are. I am as well. It’s definitely, it doesn’t just becoming aware of it doesn’t mean it goes away. It just means you have to practice awareness. You have to let other people know, hey, this is something that I’m developing and working on. And it’s something that I don’t want to dictate my leadership, but it shows up. And then

sShawna (15:47)

So I’m well aware of it.

sSara (16:11)

Hopefully, we surround ourselves with people who earn their right to be able to call us out on it and be able to help us on that journey, which I know our senior paralegal definitely has with you.

sShawna (16:21)

Yeah,

Shout out to Whitney. Absolutely does. I think you’re right because what we do, once we recognize either we’re having a triggering moment or someone is stuck in an emotional age, they realize that they become looking at being self-aware. How do we get out of it? Right? That’s the next step. How do we go ahead and go through that brunt?

sSara (16:43)

I’ll tell you one thing on specifically that one, because you and I share that one so we can dive a little bit more on that. Because a lot of our clients, I think, share that because we have a lot of ambitious people who have overcome amazing things and have built incredible lives for themselves and professions and careers and businesses. And that’s a common one in that. Yes. Because you learn at some point to

Achieve despite a lot of things, right? And you almost had to achieve because there was a big scary monster behind your back if you didn’t achieve the things you didn’t achieve, right? The difference is there are people who will say that about themselves. I have to handle everything on my own. I can’t rely on anybody in a very stoic, egotistical, I’m incredible. I’m just so big and bad versus those who through work.

Acknowledge it as this is my shortcoming. Right. I think that’s where you realize these things. I mean, you can go down the list on any of these things like needing quick fixes and easy solutions. There can be people that say, you know, I don’t like things that get too complicated. I don’t like anything that it gets too messy. I want things to be quick and easy. They might actually pride themselves in that, which is some times in life. That’s exactly what might be needed, but

If you’re not aware that that’s a pattern kicking in, that might not be what is going to get you the results you want. And it’s just old pattern of muscle memory that’s kicking in. May not get what you want to get. Here’s another one that manifests itself, playing the peacekeeper to avoid conflict. Conflict avoidance. Definitely, I think, again, a emotional muscle memory and being quick, being quick.

sShawna (18:27)

Conflict avoidant.

sSara (18:36)

Quick to be a peacekeeper. It can also be an emotional muscle memory that steps up from being maybe in a childhood where your parents were fighting.

sShawna (18:44)

Yes, I was just going to mention that I think that’s one of the things that work clients want to be aware of when they’re going through divorces is What am I showing to my children? What are they seeing and are we creating someone who’s going to be conflict avoidant? Because they had to be the peacemaker in the house. Yeah

sSara (19:05)

Yes, exactly. And that’s the role they took on. So all this is fantastic for bringing personal awareness over yourself and asking yourself when it needs going unmet or you’re just feeling stuck without any further forward movement is what emotional age am I showing up as and where did this come from? Who’s, know, what’s really being, what pattern is really playing the part here? However, I think this gets even more interesting.

When we use it to strategize divorce. And this is where you, our mastermind strategist, litigation strategist, they have a lot of fun as well because sure, this plays for you, but there’s our facing a divorce where things are getting litigious and we have to strategize our next move. And in doing so, anticipate the next move of the opposing party. This is very valuable information.

sShawna (20:02)

It is valuable information and it’s not something that’s scientific the way we do their strategy, but we do look at it as a full, not only how do we help our client, right? Who may or may not be the burden who’s emotionally stunted. How do we help them onto the next stage of their life and understanding what the law can and can’t do for them? Cause that’s a big part of what we have to do if we have a person who is stuck.

You know, and I need this now or I feel I deserve more of the laws equating to that.

sSara (20:38)

So Shawna, talk to me through how you use this information though for building a strategy by knowing the opposing party’s emotional age. Because that’s where our client is a huge part in building strategy with us. With instead of us just handing a cookie cutter strategy, we sit down with the client, understand their ex-spouse’s emotional age, and then we can design and build a strategy from there.

sShawna (21:09)

Giving away all of our strategies. However, I’ll give you an example. And I’ve got one of these cases right now that has just come in, in which the emotional immaturity of the other person is evident. They are acting out in so many ways. We’re talking about the sexual validation out seeking that out seeking just other validations, you know, doing a lot of, I guess, plastic surgeries to make themselves feel better, which, you know, nothing against all of that.

As far as that’s where they are in their emotional age. They are also gonna want a quick fix. They’re gonna want this over soon. And so one of our strategies in that particular situation is to quickly put something together and put it in front of them as a settlement agreement because they want fast cash and they want out of this because they wanna go tripping off to their new party life that they have created from themselves.

However, it’s very tricky when we do this, when we have kids involved and the client we have is really going to be the primary parent kind of has had because of this other person’s activities. But if the other person is female, we have to play that little walking line of she can’t admit to herself that the her husband should be primary because goes back to that whole.

This is hurting my ego society tells me on a bad mom if I don’t have primary custody. So we have to phrase things in ways right that sooth her ego and still isn’t the best interest and gets our client what he believes in his best interest for his children. Right. Same thing with affairs. Like often people will feel guilty, right? That they’re happy affair or whatever the bad behavior is. It could be financial abuse.

sSara (22:46)

Yes.

sShawna (23:04)

Sometimes it’s so if we put something that is good for our client immediately in front of me want to super fast so that We give them the bowl the jolt they need of having it over quickly. All right, we give them here’s your ego boost We’re gonna call it whatever we call it in this parenting plan But the reality is this is a primary parent, right? So it’s a way of making sure that we’re presenting it to them

So that it’s not harmful to their ego and they even kind of like it. This is quickly over. I can get X amount of money if I do this right now versus having to wait this six months to a year for this to go through all these conclusions. So that’s part of it, right?

sSara (23:53)

It’s

Exactly the danger of not being aware of your own patterns and your emotional triggers because this is exactly how you can be played with. If you’re not aware of it and you could, I mean for these people, they’re almost getting a win because their ego matters more to them than the actual results long term. And we’re okay, we’ll hand you your ego to your Nostalgia Plata and get a win for our client in the process.

sShawna (24:20)

Exactly. Negotiations are successful when both parties believe they walked away with a win.

sSara (24:27)

Right, exactly. You know, I had spoke to a client earlier today where I would suspect that the spouse, her spouse is stuck somewhere in the age group of 10 or under, but because there’s no reason that this divorce should not be simple, amicable and done. They don’t share any adult children, minor children. Everything’s pretty much been divided, but her spouse needs a good guy, not bad guy.

In this and that’s a very, you know, childlike need, right? Every story children read, there’s gotta be a good guy and a bad guy. The movie’s gotta have a good guy and a bad guy and he’s adamant that she’s gotta be the bad guy. So she’s gonna be the one that has to do all the work of getting this divorce through. Although it could very much be two mature adults functioning, adapting to a situation and realizing that it’s, they’ve done everything they can.

They raise these children beautifully together. Can move on and, you know, one day grandparent together. Instead, his ego’s hurt by the fact that she came out and said it. Although it’s been clear that he’s not mentally and emotionally in this marriage either. And his response very much is, you’re the, you’re the bad guy and I’m not going to get this to you that easily. You’re going to have to fight for this because that’s the emotional age that’s been triggered.

sShawna (25:52)

So spot-on right there people who are not emotionally mature cannot see the gray. They cannot exist in the gray It’s a black and white for them. They’re the good they’re the bad and not even just a little bit all bad or all good and you do see these come out in the patterns of People wanting to punish each other right with the divorce process when the reality is

sSara (26:07)

Right.

sShawna (26:18)

It’s the business of breaking up a marriage and we should really try to do it with as emotionally stable as possible.

sSara (26:25)

Absolutely. Thank you, Shawna.

sShawna (26:27)

Yeah.

sSara (26:29)

Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to atlantadivorcelawgroup.com/resources.