Episode 29: Safe To Be In The Feminine

sSara (00:05)

Empowered people make informed decisions that lead to living a life without regret. This is Sara Khaki and Shawna Woods from Atlanta Divorce Law Group. And this is the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. Welcome to another episode of the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. I’m Sara Khaki with Atlanta Divorce Law Group and I’m joined by our managing partner, Shawna Woods. Shawna, today we are doing sort of a sequel to when we talked about the demasculinization episode. And we dived quite a bit into

What are different things that sometimes men and women both do to get in the way of the results and the action that somebody that’s in the masculine energy has put all their focus into getting a result. Because the Masculine energy is very focused, it’s very results oriented, it’s single mind focus on one big achievement. And at times we talked about how

When we’re in the feminine, we don’t feel safe with the overwhelming masculine energy. We’ll demasculinize, sort of put a wrench in the way of somebody in that masculine space going after a big result. Today, sort of the anecdote to demasculinizing is how can you feel more safe to be in the feminine in order to not demasculinize? Because demasculinization comes from wanting to feel safe.

Somebody’s masculine energy is making you feel unsafe. And we went back to the cave woman and where all that genetic fear might come from. But what can we do as an anecdote to demasculinize so that you actually do feel safe to stay in your feminine and not go after demasculinization?

sShawna (01:50)

I think it’s a really hard topic and there are a lot of thoughts and processes out there about specific things. And typically when we talk about this, we’re talking about what can the male do, right? To make a female feel safe to be in their feminine. Right. And there’s a lot of thought processes out there and there’s a lot of people who have gone through and since, you know,

Give us space, right? Don’t, if you are quite a bit taller, if you are quite a bit bigger, which generally men are, don’t feel like you need to stand as close, you need to back away, let us give you the…

sSara (02:32)

I think this is important for men to hear. So let me ask you this. To this day, if you go inside of an elevator, and a man walks in, and you’re by yourself in an elevator with a man, do any of your flight or fright…

sShawna (02:48)

Absolutely. Yes,

It doesn’t matter to it. Honestly, and I’m a tall woman. I’m five foot nine a tall for a woman I should say and Automatically at my backs up against the wall. I’m watching what this person Absolutely not in my feminine and another instance would be a lot of times when you are in a strongly male dominated field like we are being in a room with a lot of men who

sSara (03:01)

I am not a my feminine adaptor

sShawna (03:18)

It’s a crowding thing and you feel a little unsafe. I’m like, need everybody just to back up about arms length away from me and then we can enjoy our space again together. It is a very innate thing.

sSara (03:33)

And I don’t think men realize that we actually have a… I don’t know if the word is genetic, we do have a real fear of their physical presence. Genuine.

sShawna (03:44)

It’s a genuine fear. Because

When you look at it, regardless, obviously we’re not saying that every single man does this. There’s a significant portion of men who do attack their spouses, men who do attack strangers. I had an experience several years ago when I was running my own law firm years and years ago, and it was late at night.

I often worked late and I was leaving a building dark out and I was getting into my car and all I see is a man running at me. And I put up my hand, you know, stop. And he stopped, looked very weird at me and I got in my car and I went away. The man who I did not recognize at the time stopped by my office the next day. He said, I need to apologize to you. He said, I was very offended last night when you told me to stop.

sSara (04:20)

My god.

sShawna (04:40)

I was coming out to say goodbye to you, know, we’re the only two people. I didn’t realize that it was frightening you. And when I went home and I told my wife what happened, she had to sit me down and explain to me how frightened you must have been. And those are the things that I think we have to share with men. Yes. Is that sometimes your very presence, and I tell my clients that sometimes because they say, I don’t know why she’s scared of me.

Sir, you’re six foot three and she’s five foot one and when you’re angry, it’s frightening It is frightening because you have the physical ability to overpower

sSara (05:19)

Yes, your voice reminds us of that. Your broad shoulders reminds us of that.

sShawna (05:24)

That can be comforting when you are in your protective mode is frightening when you don’t know the person or they are in their angry mode. And I think One of the ways to make us feel in our safety is if you are in an angry mode, you need to back up. You need to not come towards us and be physically what we feel is intimidating.

sSara (05:52)

And

Watch your voice. Absolutely. Your voice can actually put us in a… And here’s the thing, We’re not thinking straight. At that point, when you try to reason with us, and this is where we end up in a complete endless cycle, and you’re trying to reason with us, so you think raising your voice, we’re going to hear you better, but we’ve actually gone a little dumb in our heads because we’re not feeling comfortable and we’re feeling unsafe. I can’t even hear your reasoning, right? My head is in a whole different place that I can’t…

Get ahead of. Your story about the man is really interesting because it reminds me of my college professor, my sociology college professor at Georgia State. And Georgia State’s in downtown Atlanta. And when you go from one building to another, sometimes you have to pass through Woodruff Park. And Woodruff Park is such a great melting pot of students and people, actually homeless people and businessmen and musicians that are playing.

So you never really know what you’re gonna get, but our professor had this experience where every time he would walk in that street and he would say hi to one of his female students, nobody was ever saying hi back to him. So finally, he studied this. He studied it like a, sociologists do, that he did an ethnography on it. And what he found, and he was able to validate this with a lot of his female students is because he’s your typical sociology professor that not wears suit and tie, he wears jeans and his hoodie.

A lot of these female students, we had a very specific way of walking through Woodruff Park. There was nothing feminine, playful, sweet and open about it, which are all the things we sort of associate with the feminine more openness. We would put our head down and have this like look on our face, like do not talk to me, do not look at me. Cause we got, we were so used to being catcalled or getting a lot of attention that was unwelcoming going through that park. And

That’s why nobody would even look up to see, that’s our professor. And we just walk straight through. And I think this is, if men could understand that, that Sometimes the way women are showing up, it’s truly just a safety issue.

sShawna (08:08)

It absolutely is about protection 99 % of the time and Making someone feel safe and they’re feminine Maybe just acknowledging that they need that space right now You feel that protection because I will guarantee you each one of our female listeners has a similar story All right has a similar story to what I said. I have a dozen more, you know that we could share in Just feeling unsafe in certain places

Because you don’t know if you’re going to be accosted, attacked, approached in a way that you don’t want to be approached. And I think that when they acknowledge that and treat that as, okay, I need to back off away from this person and not exert myself because I’m feeling offended. You hear that term, not all men. Well, of course not all men.

We’re not stupid. We’re not saying all of you guys are dangerous. What we

sSara (09:09)

It doesn’t mean that women can’t be dangerous to women.

sShawna (09:11)

Exactly,

But I love this analogy. Okay. And anybody who has ever handled a gun or has been in the military or anything like that will appreciate it. Not all guns are loaded, but you don’t know which ones are. Right. If you see one, you’re going to act as if it is until you know it isn’t. And that’s the way out in the public to make us feel safe in our feminine.

sSara (09:27)

Right.

sShawna (09:41)

In the household, how do they make us feel safe in our family?

sSara (09:45)

I think when the man is more in that open mindset as well, when they are truly single focused and you can see they are not aware of anything in their surrounding, they’re truly just, I have to get from A to B, they have this energy that to the feminine feels like there is not much room for me. Could get something wrong if I say something wrong or I could easily get the version of him that wants to reason with me.

And that’s not going to feel safe. Because, you know, iN the feminine, sometimes we’re truly just in a playful, open, looking to gather information place. We’re not truly looking for a conversation just to get to from A to B, right? Whereas the masculine is very much like, what’s the point of this? What’s the point of this? And hey, can, you guys know this, I can completely be in that place myself where, okay, I get it, I get it. What’s your point? Right? And that’s the masculine. And that doesn’t feel safe.

To the feminine, because the more that kind of pressure you put on us to quickly get you to the focus of something, again, the more we go into a headspace of getting dizzy, of like, I don’t know what else to say, because the masculine energy is kind of feeling overwhelming. But what’s interesting is the anecdote to masculine energy is respect. What demasculination feels like to a man is disrespect.

If they were to describe it in their own words, they say, I was disrespected, right? And then what the feminine needs is safety. Yeah. So we need safety in order to respect or do they need to feel respected in order to make us feel safe? Who goes first? I don’t know.

sShawna (11:33)

That’s a really hard question. And I think that for me, I think that respect is earned. And I’m going to take care of my safety until I respect you enough. I don’t know. We’re in circles here. The safety part, I think, is key and essential. What you just said here is safety of a different sort in the household, right? I’m feeling safe to just express and be playful.

I’m feeling safe with you and I know what you’re talking about when you’re talking about problem solving I mean because I go into that mode here right if somebody comes up and so shares an experience I mean immediately looking What’s the problem and how do I solve right and that’s the masculine part that we both share and you’re right sometimes? We’re just talking because we’re sharing a funny anecdote that happened that day

We found this interesting, maybe you find it interesting too. So I think that for me in those conversations, When I’m in my masculine or what I would appreciate when somebody else is in their masculine is, are we problem solving or are we talking?

sSara (12:44)

And I think that’s definitely what is needed in partnership. DO you need, do you want me to just listen to you? And Alison Armstrong is an amazing partnership coach and she teaches this where you say, what would you like? You want, she literally said that, do you want me to get the waste basket that you can verbally vomit into and I’m holding it for you. And then when she’s sharing or he’s sharing, whoever’s the one that needs to share right now and just be listened to when.

They think thEy’ve said everything, then you say, okay, what else? Right. And then what else? Don’t interject with, okay, here’s what you need to do. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I’ll fix it. Cause here’s what the masculine would do. They’ll solve your problem for you. They’ll tell you the solution. But if you had not made it clear to them that you just want them to listen, you’re actually pretty annoyed that they’ve solved the problem and given you a solution. So you quickly reject why the solution won’t work. And then what will he say? He will say, well,

If you did not want a solution to your problem, you should not have shared this with me. And then we are in a very bad downward cycle from there of then you’re going to probably demasculinate and then he’s not going to make you feel safe because he feels disrespected. And on and on we go. Whereas a quick solution is what you just said. Hey, I’m about to share something with you. I don’t really think I’m open right now to a solution or even a fix. I just need to share.

Just need you to hold that wastebasket for me as I verbally vomit into it.

sShawna (14:14)

And it’s a mutual respect really because when we’re talking about these conversations, know, respect enough for each other to say, I need to be in my feminine right now. Can you make me feel safe? Right. Or for him, right? Or whoever’s in there masculine to ask, you know, what is it you’re needing for me right now? Where is it I can hold this space for you?

And we’re going to do that. And I think another one is touch because again, for female, when we’re talking about fear, when we’re talking about safety, sOmetimes we want to be held by that partner. And sometimes we don’t want to be touched. ANd for the masculine to understand and ask, is this me? You know, because they can feel rejected. Is this me? Or is there something I can do to help you feel more safe right now? Do you need not to be touched?

I have absolutely loved Keanu Reeves for the longest time. Love him. See him in pictures with his female co-stars or even people just coming up, look at his hands. He will have the arms behind, right, as we do when we’re standing. He’s not touching these women. He is making sure he is holding a respectful space. And I found that to be one of the most amazing things that a man can do.

When he’s not intimate with a woman, where he’s not in a partnership with a woman, is mind your space around them. We may not want to be touched.

sSara (15:52)

I love that. Thank you, Shawna. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to atlantadevorcelawgroup.com forward slash resources.