Episode 21: Social Media: Creating An Artificial Reality?

sSara (00:05)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. This is Sara Khaki with Atlanta Divorce Law Group joined by our very own managing partner, Shawna Woods. Hey, Shawna. Shawna today we are going to talk about social media, which is everything from Facebook, Instagram, tick tock, Twitter, and all the other 50 new apps that are probably going to be up and coming by the time this podcast is released. Before we start bashing it and getting into a bent. Hate social media conversation, which we promise is not the only direction we’re going in Let’s talk about the benefits of social media. Let’s first set the land of why is this such a big thing? Because nothing without value is going to impact this many people’s lives. At least I hope not. So what are some values some benefits that you have seen and gained from social media?

sShawna (01:14)

Well, I’ll tell you when Facebook first came out at least to where I could join because it was a more exclusive joining at first You had to be in college and then it went to schools You had to be in a school and I joined when my daughter joined because at that point she was preteen well teen early teens

sSara (01:23)

Yeah, you have to be in college.

sShawna (01:37)

And I was definitely one of those parents was I was going to watch to see what was going on with her in the social media world, even though she was very apt in understanding social media herself. So when I joined, one of the things that I found was very entertaining, but also nice was I was able to connect with people all over the world. And I have people all over the world that I wasn’t able to keep in regular contact with.

And then I enjoy seeing when they update their pictures of their family or maybe their vacations and what they’re doing. And I thought that was really a wonderful way for people to keep in contact. You have a dear friend of mine from law school who’s in Iceland. And it was wonderful to be able to keep up with her as well. And so I think that’s a really good way to use social media.

sSara (02:31)

Yeah, my personal social media story that is a really powerful one for me is my family moved to the United States in the end of 1996 and we weren’t planning to move here. We came here for the summer and then we came here from Sweden visiting and before we knew it, parents were I guess what kids were staying. I never got to properly say goodbye to all my childhood friends that I had grown up with since.

You know, 12 years of living on the same street and growing up together. And when social media started, Facebook started, all of a I was getting friend invites from childhood friends from Sweden that I had literally just dream about, but didn’t even know at this point, like, how could I reconnect with some of them that I had lost contact with? And it was truly one of the most important, powerful things to me about Facebook is

Finding all these elementary school friends that I never got to go say bye to or middle school friends. And even when we traveled back to Sweden, we were able to reconnect and meet each other in different towns because of Facebook. Same thing with my family in Iran. I’m able to check in on them and see them because, you know, calling with that time zone difference and the financial strain sometimes of calling long distance, which we don’t really have as much anymore with all the apps. But back then we did.

It’s really, really neat to check in and see what’s going on. And to that point, social media created revolutions around the world. I mean, the Arab Spring in Egypt was massively because of social media. What’s going on in Iran right now with the women’s revolution or their attempt of it, we all know about it. You guys know about it. Mostly, yes, the news, but you’re hearing personal voices. Personal stories because of social media. So there’s a very, powerful component here.

sShawna (04:27)

Absolutely, and to that end, one of the apps you didn’t mention because you aren’t on is TikTok. Yes. And I’m actually following that movement via TikTok where that’s the only place that they’re able to upload what is actually going on. And so you’re seeing non-filtered video. Right. You’re seeing what is the reality of the situation. So yes.

It just like some journalist, right? That it is used in so many powerful and good ways that it’s easy to not see the downside.

sSara (05:01)

I want to comment on what you said on the TikTok because this is again, just diving deeper into the value of social media. Growing up, one of my biggest pet peeves was whenever something was going on in the Middle East, the first thing we would see on the news was an image, especially of my country, Iran, them burning the American flag. And me and my family would just sit in a corner, our heads in our hands and say, God, please don’t show these images.

We know how old these images are. A. B. We know this is not how Iranian people truly feel. You found some Ali street kids in a corner, most likely, I’m assuming here, I’m going on a limb. They saw some journalists that probably threw an American flag at them and was like, hey, go after this. Or like the scenes where we see a few people kicking Saddam’s head. That’s the scene that they keep showing us over and over again. That’s the news journalist, let’s make news now versus social media.

Actually let us see for the most part what the people themselves were experiencing.

sShawna (06:03)

Absolutely, because it is a user-friendly app or in Facebook, TikTok, all of these things, they’re able to upload them when they can. And I agree with you about the news sources. They’re looking for that kind of clickbait, that opportunity to have the most views. And anything incendiary, of course, it’s going to get you more views. So the other, mean, kind of a lighthearted way I eat.

I personally like to use social media. Is there a lot of activities out there that I wouldn’t have known existed? Write community events, right? Um, cause I get things like a grilled cheese festival or there’s a, you know, there’s a Halloween something or other, and you don’t know about these things unless they’re advertised to you. And we don’t really use newspapers anymore. Those things don’t make the news, right? Those aren’t the feel good things aren’t going to make the news. So you do see those things as.

sSara (07:03)

Just an individual with a cause that has now a platform to say, hey, I experienced this traumatic event or this really joyful event would like to bring awareness to it and finding your people. Finding people that get on that board with you. I there’s so many different social media groups, Facebook groups that are specifically for family law firm owners or so many that are for

Attorneys practicing in Georgia and exchange of information and ideas and support and resourcing. All that stuff is truly wonderful.

sShawna (07:40)

Absolutely, resourcing, I really want to the key in on that, whether it’s in our career or whether it’s simply a hobby that we’re connecting with what you said, our people, right? There are a lot of times I’ve connected in those groups with people I’ve never met, but I’ve exchanged a lot of information with and do consider them a friend of sorts, right? I would love to meet some of them in person. So you do get these wonderful contacts that you otherwise probably would have never gone.

sSara (08:09)

Absolutely. Okay. I think we’ve set social media up on its pedestal. Let’s knock it down. What are the problems?

sShawna (08:20)

I think there are a number of problems. Think sometimes it’s hard to call them out. One of the biggest problems that I think happens, and I think we’re all realizing is we get sucked into this world that is this virtual world that is not in real life. And people stop living their real life because they are living this fake life. Social media avatar.

sSara (08:46)

Their social media avatar.

sShawna (08:50)

And one of the things that I think is very prevalent is posting wonderful pictures, right? And all these lovely, the highlight reel of all the lovely things that you’re doing, which is not a true reflection of your family life or your personal life or reality, right? Because you want other people to see you that we all do this. We all do what they call impression management, right? I want you to see me in a certain

So I’m only going to allow you to see me in that way which sets up a falsehood About how other people are living their lives and let some people feel why am I not living this life, right? Right when in reality It’s pretty fake

sSara (09:36)

And it creates what I’ve seen in all genders and all backgrounds, all age groups. It creates this need for validation that I’m not sure was such a strong thing before. And maybe as I’m getting older, I’m noticing it more. That might not be a social media thing, but this idea of constantly impression management. This is

The very curated choreographed life of Sara Khaki on Facebook and Instagram. And you’re going to see the highs. The travels, you’re going to see the highs of the business. You’re going to see the times when the team is doing at its best. You’re going to see when the family is all happy and you know, behind every one of my family pictures, 99 % there is a small second where a child was not screaming probably.

Or a moment where like I didn’t, know, flinch one eye incorrectly. So there’s that, right? And it creates this idea of how many, likes that it gets and the comments that it gets, all wonderful. It’s not just all bad, right? At some point it’s nice when you have your family abroad or even…

High school friends that you haven’t seen in a while, they’ll like, oh my gosh, your kids have grown up. Oh my gosh, I’m so happy for you. That’s nice. But There’s a point where it becomes personal validation and you constantly need to get this validation from a source that’s outside of you. And social media is such a huge cloud over our heads that we keep turning to it for this.

Personal validation where that was gone. Where would you go for your validation? Where did we go for our validation? Well Personally, I would say internal it was a lot more internal or to the closer group of people that were around you and that you trusted and you had an intimate relationship with outside of social media, so I’ll bounce to this on that as well

How real are our friendships and relationships that are on social media, right? I had a friend that recently read a book about just bad habits and how to get rid of them. Social media was a big one and it, I don’t know if he read this in the book or he just was commenting on this. The idea of we think we’re checking in on each other on social media, but it’s all superficial versus picking up the phone. Hey, how are you versus

Really calling the family abroad to hear their voice versus just, I saw the pictures of the wedding, right? Just the superficial level of, I saw how this person’s doing, they’re fine. And then checking that out versus truly checking in on each other and truly building relationships.

sShawna (12:43)

You you hit on something very, that I’ve been paying attention to in the research, because I do a lot of social media, not only for our firm, but I enjoy, I’m one of those voyeurs that enjoys, you know, going on and reading the comment section or, you know, seeing what other people have to say, because I find it entertaining.

But one of the things that the research has shown, because it’s been around long enough where they’ve actually done studies on this, that you talked about the likes and the number of likes and how many times we count the number of likes. Oh, that only got 40 likes versus that got 100. They laughed at this one and they loved this one. All of these things are, what does that wow button mean? In dissecting all these, but one of the things that they found is it’s really actually bad for our mental health.

sShawna (13:39)

To spend that amount of time on any kind of social media because of that little like button The like button when we receive a like or we receive some kind of comment. It does release a hormone called dopamine dopamine is a it’s the kind of Hormone that we get a an enjoyment from but it’s enjoyment similar to like when we gamble

Right. Or when we take a risk or when addicts drink or they do drugs, it doesn’t translate into actual happiness. So when you’re going for those likes, when you’re addicted to those likes, that’s all you’re getting. Right. You have to keep going back for more and more. But you’re never fulfilled. You’re never fulfilled because it never reaches what they call the oxytocin hormone. Now the oxytocin hormone is actually where you’re bonding.

Or corpse. Call it the trust hormone. It’s the hormone that gets released when a mother first holds her baby. Right? It’s those types of things of the real fundamental building blocks of actual relationships that never get reached when you’re simply going for the likes.

sSara (14:55)

That’s fascinating. So you’re constantly chasing this high that is never really going to be satisfied. And that is why, I mean, we do have this pandemic of people just staring into their phones and not getting off of it. I mean, they’ll be at an event. I just came back from an event and you are at an event and this, there were huge celebrities at this event. And Boys the Men had a concert. Arnold Schwarzenegger was there. People are more concerned in that moment.

Of getting this on social media instead of just putting their phones down and realizing for a moment that they’re in the presence of a great speech or they’re a presence of a great musician versus I got to get this experience down correctly recorded and curated for social media.

sShawna (15:45)

Right, They’re not experiencing the moment. They want all of those superficial feelings, but they’re not really coming to terms with what does it feel like to actually be here and experience this with whoever you’re with.

sSara (15:46)

No.

So in typical fashion of our podcast, we’re going to go to the good, the bad, but then bring in a whole other side angle to this. Are these problems, and is the superficial experiences of these avatars that we create through our social media profiles, and this chase for this high, the chemical release high.

Are these symptoms of social media or social media a reflection of who we really are as a society? And we’re watching it on the screen. It’s now like a mirror to us to look at, see, this is who we are as a society versus social media has created this. Is it the chicken or the egg?

sShawna (16:46)

There’s no good answer to this there chicken or the egg no one ever knows which came first. But i do think that like anything else right when i said doping mean releases when we can’t mean you can release when we have a drink of alcohol take it to the extreme you have an addiction. Used in moderation you have something fun.

sSara (17:05)

Right.

How many people are using it in moderation? Do we know? We don’t know. My thoughts on this is before social media, can we say that there was something else we were all chasing? Were we all just chasing different things to get that high? There more, were we all hiding in our corners with maybe gambling problems, shopping problems, over exercising, just something that we were taking to an extreme?

But now social media has kind of taken so much time from that. Let’s say you stay off your phone and let’s say an average user actually have not looked up this data. I’m just going to throw a number out there. Let’s say an average user of social media spends 30 hours a week on social media. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that might not be that far. Um, let’s say you get that 30 hours back. Where would the average person put those 30 hours? Can we assume they’re actually going to take those 30 hours?

And go and develop deeper, stronger relationships and truly check in on family members they haven’t checked in on, check on friends that they haven’t checked in on? Are we gonna, they’re actually gonna go and create and add value and help people in a real way? Or is that gonna go to some other extreme? I don’t know the answer to that. But I think as much as I like to hate on social media and I go through a love-hate relationship with myself, and if anybody follows me on Instagram or…

Facebook, you’ll see my love hate relationship with it because it’s very seasonal when I’m in and when I’m out, right? I almost give myself a timeout just to make sure this thing’s not taking over too much of my time with my family or keeping me from being in the present moment. But where is that? I think it’d be interesting for us to challenge our thoughts on is this ruining our society? Is this ruining?

How we build and create together or is it just a reflection of who we really are and we get to see it in a mirror? Though it’s so strong that the attraction to it is so strong we almost can’t quit.

sShawna (19:11)

You know, you’re talking about social media as we are adults, you and I are both adults using social media, but there’s a whole generation that has been raised with social media that don’t know anything different. So if you ask them, what would you do with that 30 hours, they’d probably stare at you. Right, right. They’re raised in a way that has affected their long term happiness, and they don’t even know it.

sSara (19:23)

Anything.

100%. They haven’t ever seen the other side of this coin. So I’ll put this challenge out there because I’ve been doing this myself. My family was away for a while this summer and we were living abroad for the summer and I made an intention to stay away from my phone as much as possible. And when I say that, that really just means social media because if the phone was going to ring and it was coming from the office or it was coming from a family, I was going to answer it.

But I was able to stay away from my phone quite a bit because I wasn’t on social media. So if you really use your phone for the purpose of the phone, you’ll realize you don’t use it that as much as you think you need to use it. A. B. I really pushed myself to just be in the moment. So where did I spend my extra time? For the longest time ever, I have not read a fiction book.

I actually started reading a fiction book and I was my first, know, know. Sean was looking at me like crazy because I’m the girl that’s like on my phone with my audible app open, listening to the next mindset book, business book or something, you know, thought provoking new idea or a great biography. This was like, okay, I’m going to read fiction. And it was almost for a while, a fixed replacement from social media, right? It was.

Again, getting yourself lost into a different world. So it was actually really fascinating. Taking a step back and looking at myself and saying, okay, I had to step away from quote unquote, the pretend world of all the assumptions we make about people on social media and all the stories and narrations and fiction we create about them just based on what they post to an actual fiction book so I could get lost in the characters of a fiction book. Right.

And that book actually got me through totally forgetting about social media, But I was actually able to spend a lot more time, intentional time with my children where I wasn’t scrolling through the phone. Spend a lot more time with myself, just in nature, listening to the sounds of nature instead of being on my phone, listening to music or, know, which even when you do other things on your phone, you’re two seconds away from scrolling through Instagram.

And just being a lot more at peace about not even being seen through all the amazing experiences I was having or not feeling needed to feel validated when I was having a hard day. Just really driving that, driving into myself more. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience. So I think anybody out there that’s wondering where are my hours going, it would be a cool experiment to try that.

For now, I actually have just social media on my desktop. So it’s an intentional login to go in and check it instead of just going on your phone, which I have found to be a great way to check on myself. But I’ll say this. You will replace those 30 hours of my experience with something else that can be addicting and that can, again, disengage you from yourself and your core. If you’re, it’s not an intentional practice.

That’s, that’s, that was my experience. A day to day was an intentional practice of, am not going to be numbing my mind with something else that may or may not be real or may or may block me from some checking in with myself or truly spending time in the now with my family. So there’s that challenge. Shawna, is there a playbook for how to use social media?

sShawna (23:29)

I think there are a lot of playbooks out there. Think you have to find the one that’s right for you. I was listening to one of, I also listened to audible books and I was listening to a book on time management. And one of the things that was recommended is to give someone else the ability to change your password and say, you are not allowed to give me my password until I get X, Y, Z done, or you’re only allowed to give it to me on Saturday morning.

And then you change it again on Sunday night. You’re one of those things so that you are taken, you took it off your phone, which was the immediate, right? And so you would have to, that was the extra step. You made it hard for yourself to get on social media. And I think that’s an excellent thing to do. Make it hard for yourself. Make it, you have to work to get there. You have to accomplish a goal to get the reward.

Because I think that’s one of the things that we’re missing in the social media world is we’re getting our instant rewards and that’s not reality.

sSara (24:35)

Right. So let’s say once you get on there, what do you think is a playbook or what is your playbook for what you post, what you consume?

sShawna (24:47)

So I enjoy the banter of certain Facebook. And I do say banter. I’m on this very local Facebook page. And I look at it like a town hall and they’re debating and I’m watching this debate. And I think it’s fun and it’s interesting. But if I notice myself, I’ve been on there for 30 minutes, I’m cutting it off. It’s enough. I’ve paid enough attention to this. I’ve got this little

Thrill of being this voyeur and this this Facebook page. I’m very intentional also of what I post and Most of it is either business related or I will share some shots You know of different things that I’ve done I went to Scotland this summer and I shared those things I Don’t share a lot of my family. Yeah, mostly because my daughter is primarily the family that is local to me

And she’s very intentional with her social media, so I’m very respectful of what she chooses to share with people. And I think that’s one of the things that we as parents have to be mindful is being respectful of posting things that our children may or may not want us to post about them.

sSara (26:03)

Yeah. So put your divorce lawyer hat on. What would you tell somebody that’s going through divorce what their social media playbook should be?

sShawna (26:12)

Well, the first thing I say is get off social media. Absolutely.

sSara (26:14)

Amen. There’s nothing good that can come out of that, usually.

sShawna (26:19)

Usually here’s the thing you get these very and everybody see them. We call them vague booking They just post this you know very big very help me kind of Posts that let you know that they’re going through a really really rough time, which I understand people want some support Facebook’s not the place you’re gonna get your support plus if you are posting all about your divorce, especially if you have children The courts are gonna hate that

It’s like you are standing on a public platform shouting out all your business to anybody.

sSara (26:55)

All admissible evidence.

sShawna (26:57)

Absolutely, absolutely. Do not ever put anything in writing you do not want read in a courtroom. The second thing, it’s not good for your mental health. You are already going through something that is completely life changing. You need to be focusing on healing yourself and not on social media.

sSara (27:03)

Right.

So My personal playbook for social media is will I want my kids to see this? Yes. And that’s not just true for what I put out there, but also for friends that I have on social media. If I have a person on social media that posts something that I would not want my child to see, because most of us with kids, they all have access to our phones. And if they don’t, they’ll find it.

I will be friends somebody that will post something that I wouldn’t want my child to see. I’ll get rid of that. And then as far as what would I post and what would I consume? I’m an avid believer in putting out there things for consumption for others that I would want to consume myself. So I’m not going to post something for my own self-indulgence. If it’s something that could add value, whether it’s my mom gets to see this

Picture of her grandkids and share it, because I could send it to her in a text message, sure. But if she would like to, she could now share it with her friends and family, gives her easier access to do that, because hey, I’ll be honest, my parents are not the most tech savvy people, so I gotta give them a leg up every now and then. I pretty much manage my mom’s social media account for her. But if that would be something of value, it might not always be of value to the general public, but it might be of value to just…

You know, my personal circle or just my family members. And that’s really how I think about it. Is this something that I would want to consume myself from another family member or from a friend? And it has had absolutely wonderful values. Like I do love two years after the fact when it says, hey, this was, you know, the day we celebrated being, you know, published on Vanity Fair Atlanta Divorce Law Group. Like that was so exciting, right? To see that. So those moments are rare.

End of the day, I think it comes down to your own value system. And hey, there’s going to be people that are going to be trolls about it regardless. Sometimes I might be the troll myself. But it’s an everyday intentional practice of how am I consuming this? How am I showing up to this? And what do I want to spend that extra time if I was to remove this out of my life? Shawna, anything we’re missing here? Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

sShawna (29:34)

I think we covered it.

sSara (29:39)

Thanks for listening to the Happily Ever After Divorce Podcast. If you’d to learn more, go to atlantadivorcelawgroup.com/resources.